Winter War Fantasy Tourney Support Thread

[Rhys]

figured i'd try to garner support for a winter WHFB tourney, post if you're down! personally, i'd like to see something along the lines of:

2500 pts
SC's allowed except Teclis, Kairos, Thorek, Masque
3 games Battle Line scenario with up to 4 battle modifiers (or blood and glory and watch tower, with 800-1000 vp scored for breaking the enemy/holding the tower)
0-16 scoring system (same as onslaught)
Winter themed armies get to decide who gets the first turn

[Chase]

We will be doing a WHFB tournament in Plainville at some point this winter.  Unfortunately, those are all the details I have currently.

[Shadow76]

Next weekend is 3 day weekend.  Im good for it

[keithb]

I am with you, except the winter themed army thing, It takes a lot of time and effort to get a theme into an army.  My skaven are more "fall" themed, for example.

[JakeM]

The winter thing seems kind of silly. If you want to do something different then it should be more fair. Like Scenarios that have some kind of winter theme. Watchtower is never good. It just gives a big disadvantage to Monstrous infantry and cavalry army's.

I say we do an onslaught warm up tournament. Use all the onslaught rules. With some test scenarios from Keith. 

[Shadow76]

it might be unfair to monstrous infantry, but at the same time there is always the chance that it might come up.  just have to play it as it happens.  ogres still have some very nice tricks even with watchtwr scenario. 

[Rhys]

I say we do an onslaught warm up tournament. Use all the onslaught rules. With some test scenarios from Keith.  

this is actually a really good idea. and the winter thing was just to give my beastmen the first turn in all my gameslol, i wasn't serious.

it might be unfair to monstrous infantry, but at the same time there is always the chance that it might come up.  just have to play it as it happens.  ogres still have some very nice tricks even with watchtwr scenario. 

the problem though is that if a unit of 40 regenerating grave guard/bloodletters/whatever swift reforms into the building, it ceases to matter what the ogre player's army consists of. there is no way they can get that unit out within the time constraints of the game. the scenario needs heavy modification in order to be playable in a competitive setting.

[Chase]

I like the idea of an Onslaught warm up.

I think we'll likely end up doing that.

[Rhys]

Chase, whats your take on another painting contest as well? i missed the last one but it looked like it was a lot of fun and seeing the talent in the community was great.

[Chase]

Organizing and executing a painting competition is difficult for me due to the following reasons:

1) I know very little about painting.
2) I am not qualified in any way to judge a higher level painting competition.
and mostly...
3) I have to rely almost entirely on people that are not myself to make sure the scoring rubric is "good", the models get judged in a non-bias way by more than 1 person, and the results are given to me in a timely manner.


An idea we toyed with is a terrain modeling competition.  It fell through mostly due to the difficulty in creating a scoring rubric that was better than okay.


Short answer:  It'll happen, but I'm not sure when. 

[JakeM]

it might be unfair to monstrous infantry, but at the same time there is always the chance that it might come up.  just have to play it as it happens.  ogres still have some very nice tricks even with watchtwr scenario. 

I don't understand why you say there is a chance that it might come up. I have played in a lot of tournaments and watchtower has never been one of the scenarios. The reason is simple. Its a poorly designed scenario that uses poorly written building rules. It's not fun to play a game that is nearly impossible for you to win just because you wanted to play ogres or brits.

[keithb]

I agree, I have been to 5 Fantasy GT's since 8th edition came out and no one has ever played watch tower.

I could see possibly, POSSIBLY doing a modified version where it is worth extra VPs, but then, why not just make it an objective marker, that way all armies can participate. 

The Building rules are not very balanced for the game.

There WILL NOT be a watchtower scenario at Templecon!

[Shadow76]

it might be unfair to monstrous infantry, but at the same time there is always the chance that it might come up.  just have to play it as it happens.  ogres still have some very nice tricks even with watchtwr scenario. 

I don't understand why you say there is a chance that it might come up. I have played in a lot of tournaments and watchtower has never been one of the scenarios. The reason is simple. Its a poorly designed scenario that uses poorly written building rules. It's not fun to play a game that is nearly impossible for you to win just because you wanted to play ogres or brits.

i played a skull of thrones in Nottingham and we rolled off the six scenarios.  after 5 games it was a roll off between watch twr and meeting engagement.  we rolled meeting engagement.  i figured if warhammer world does the scenario it could come up anywhere.

i have played tourneys that were just normal ones with 10 people and it has come up.

anyways, im never a fan of people saying their army is at a disadvantage for whatever reason.  all armies have some good things and some bad, some good generals play them and some bad generals play them.  they have been play tested and i think all armies can win and all armies can lose.  i think ogres can win watchtwr.  yes their are  some armies that are better equipped for the scenario, sure.  but at the same time they have challenges else where.

im just game for whatever.  i like different things.  i like it when the organizer throws something crazy out there.  i like adapting and over coming.  I play lizards a lot but i also play DE, TK, Skaven, Ogres, and Daemons.  They all can be good and they all have weaknesses.

[Rhys]

i played a skull of thrones in Nottingham and we rolled off the six scenarios.  after 5 games it was a roll off between watch twr and meeting engagement.  we rolled meeting engagement.  i figured if warhammer world does the scenario it could come up anywhere.

i have played tourneys that were just normal ones with 10 people and it has come up.

to be honest, ToS and small 10 person events are not really regarded as good measures of competitive play. look at the list that bryan carmichael won the uk ToS with this year. it is almost(if not) unbeatable and took zero skill to use (by his own admission!). and of course GW uses the watch tower, they can't admit there's anything wrong with their own scenario can they?

anyways, im never a fan of people saying their army is at a disadvantage for whatever reason.  all armies have some good things and some bad, some good generals play them and some bad generals play them.  they have been play tested and i think all armies can win and all armies can lose.  i think ogres can win watchtwr.  yes their are  some armies that are better equipped for the scenario, sure.  but at the same time they have challenges else where.

the simple fact of the matter is that some army books are stronger than others. in uncomped events, you see the same exact armies dominating with relatively similar builds.

im just game for whatever.  i like different things.  i like it when the organizer throws something crazy out there.  i like adapting and over coming.  I play lizards a lot but i also play DE, TK, Skaven, Ogres, and Daemons.  They all can be good and they all have weaknesses.

i may be wrong but like i've said before, i think your views on army balance are largely influenced by the armies you play. of those 6, 4 are regarded as having very strong books (based on their tournament rankings under different comp systems, or dominating uncomped). your other 2 armies are strongly balanced 8th ed books (which are the exception to the rule and very well written in my opinion). i think your views would be slightly different if you played brets, beasts, wood elves or high elves for example. you're correct that every army has strengths and weaknesses but they are by no means equal.

[keithb]

I have to agree with brother maynard here.

Ogres are obviously already doing well in 8th with their new book.  But this is also mainly in comped events.

uncomped DE, DoC, LM and SK are still top dogs.  And you play all of those armies.

I don't see you showing up and winning with TK, or WE, or Beastmen.

You are right Keith, any army can win or lose A game.   But when you are talking about winning 5 games to win a GT, some armies are just not on the same level. 

I for one am excited for the new VC book in Jan.  So that we'll see more than just LOL Gravegaurd builds.