Annual Megabattle Rules Questions

[the_trooper]

Well, if my zombies don't count as troops, An'ggrath can't count as an HQ besides, greater daemons don't count as any slot in the CSM codex right?

Mike

Greater Daemons count as HQ.  You play loyalists too much?

[Rob S]

As a man fielding one, I'll go ahead and offer my two cents:

As they use the rules for summoning a greater daemon, which is an HQ choice, why not let it count as an HQ?  Besides it would be fitting to have hunting such a daemon be a trophy kill.  Since Lee won't be posting (sober), I'll talk for him too .

Rich, I'd highly recommend you making a post on a forum like Warseer about this.  It may be that there's something we've missed that certifies whether or not it does.  I don't know what surprise you're planning with it, and I don't plan on looking, but if you share it with them you could show us the response so we could see a general consensus of those out of this battle.

[the_trooper]

As a man fielding one, I'll go ahead and offer my two cents:

As they use the rules for summoning a greater daemon, which is an HQ choice, why not let it count as an HQ?  Besides it would be fitting to have hunting such a daemon be a trophy kill.  Since Lee won't be posting (sober), I'll talk for him too .

Rich, I'd highly recommend you making a post on a forum like Warseer about this.  It may be that there's something we've missed that certifies whether or not it does.  I don't know what surprise you're planning with it, and I don't plan on looking, but if you share it with them you could show us the response so we could see a general consensus of those out of this battle.

Warseer is full of 4chan dropouts, I'm cool.  Boobie marines (not slaanesh) and other crap.

Fine, he isn't an HQ, I was just being lenient.  Most expensive I've seen is Abadabadoodon.

[Rob S]

Warseer is full of 4chan dropouts, I'm cool.  Boobie marines (not slaanesh) and other crap.

Fine, he isn't an HQ, I was just being lenient.  Most expensive I've seen is Abadabadoodon.

They're worse than me?  Christ. 

Post it on a different forum, then.  I'm fine with him being one, but I just want to see if there's something that sets this in stone.  I like when things are plain out.

[the_trooper]

Warseer is full of 4chan dropouts, I'm cool.  Boobie marines (not slaanesh) and other crap.

Fine, he isn't an HQ, I was just being lenient.  Most expensive I've seen is Abadabadoodon.

They're worse than me?  Christ. 

Post it on a different forum, then.  I'm fine with him being one, but I just want to see if there's something that sets this in stone.  I like when things are plain out.

It doesn't say, so I won't do it.  I can't find it specifying it.  Murph can hunt something else, something smellier but smaller.

[Librarian]

We cheaked and the asset targest a independent character not a HQ which none of those huge demons are.

But they are still HQ's. read under the slanesh one he has a entry explaining that Demon Lords are HQ's.

[Chase]

Color me dubious.  Titans are not organized that way.  Each company of infantry doesn't have an attached Titan or an attached fighter wing or an attached heavy artillery company, or an attached anti aircraft battery.  These are often strategic assets organized under their own commands and spread out to cover wide fronts.  You don't assign fighter wings an area of front to defend.  Clumping a bunch of titans together without a screening force in front of them is absurd.  We have players coming in who have been for months building forces with all infantry, others with little to no infantry.  Some have many exotic big things, some have none.  This last minute change is significantly impacting how forces are organized or will fight.  If the game was intended to enforce balanced armies only, we should have been told a lot sooner.

I'd suggest that if a heavy force lacks screening front line units, adjacent forces with appropriate units might be allowed to spread out to cover an extended front.  A primarily heavy force that allows adjacent units to cover it's front might be allowed to deploy in adjacent rear areas.  This might allow players who intended to play a strategic team oriented game to deploy rationally while preventing too heavy a concentration of forces at vital areas.

We have re-thought the deployment situation and while we will be sticking with the original "plan" I think players will be more than happy with how we allow them to set up.  As it stands now, a pair of players will have to deploy on a table (each team chooses where each person deploys, roughly 2 per table).  Spilling over onto an adjacent table is fine, so long as its "necessary."  This will still restrict players to an area but that area is far less ridged than the original idea intended it to be.  It accomplishes the goals Derek and I had in mind, allows for more structured deployment options as well as army comp options, and should keep players a bit happier overall.  More details on this will go out with the map of the table, which should be made available Wednesday at some point.

This is not a change to the deployment rules; I am just posting this to let the player base know that we have re-thought the idea and that it will be a bit more flexible than you have been lead to believe.

[Chase]

I guess the answer should be "no."

I'm being told that many special units created by data sheets aren't given slots.

I am also under the impression that if the unit were intended to be considered "troops" (or anything at all, I guess) that the data sheet would specify...  An example of this is The Green Tide.

Thoughts?

I'd like to be careful here, because we do have some people who take things literally some times. If a datasheet is made up of units that are troop choices per their codex, then obviously being part of a data-sheet does not counter this. For example, nearly every imperial data sheet in the book

Cheers,
Alan

I agree with you, Alan.

I have seen a few data sheets that list what is necessary to fufill the pre-req and do make mention of that fact that some are "troops" etc. and then provide some kind of "extra" for a few points.  I'm not sure if these sheets actually change the units around at all.  I do not have the books present and I do not know them well enough to list an example, I am just curious if these are some you're talking about, Alan?

An aside:  I wonder though... Why is it that The Green Tide (made up of a large amount of "troops"?) data sheet makes it a point to refer to the new "unit" as troops for purposes of claiming objectives?  Is it because it actually alters the units involved and makes it a single new one?  My lack of knowledge fails me again...

Sadly, I should refrain from getting deeper into this away from the books and someone who can answer questions I have on the fly.

I do agree that things can be taken literally and that fact is very dangerous when it comes to making a ruling.

Please let me know if this does create any issues.

[the_trooper]

A green tide is just one unit of boys.  A huge unit of boys. The way it works is essentially all orks falling back join it.  So one huge troop choice.  A unit.

[jesterofthedark]

the green tide is refered too because it alters the rules of a normal troop choice.  So, some may argue that it loses its troop status by taking on an apocalyptic stature.  That is why they make the reference to make it clear that this unit, while very very large, is still able to hold objectives in apocalypse games.  Many other data sheets that use troops only restrict you in what you are required to take to meet the requirements of the data sheet.  Most of the time those data sheets to actually alter the composition of the unit from the codex.

[Spooky]

From what I've read in a few forums online, it seems that a fair number of people think that psychic hoods taken by Witch Hunters have infinite range since the range isn't specified, and that their psychic hoods still work that way despite the change in the Space Marines hoods.

By the same token, I'd say a Witch Hunter Land Raider wouldn't have the machine spirit rules since it's not mentioned in the Witch Hunter codex.

But I figured I should make sure the Chaos players agree that the psychic hood employed by Witch Hunter Inquisitors have infinite range, because otherwise I'm not sure I'd bother taking them an Inquisitor.

Thanks for considering!

[Lykosan]

Unlimited range is reduced to 6 feet in the megabattle that was what was ruled last year and what was told to me by D as well for this year.

[Spooky]

Thanks very much for the information. To my mind that's both fair and useful.

[Achillius]

the green tide is refered too because it alters the rules of a normal troop choice.  So, some may argue that it loses its troop status by taking on an apocalyptic stature.  That is why they make the reference to make it clear that this unit, while very very large, is still able to hold objectives in apocalypse games.  Many other data sheets that use troops only restrict you in what you are required to take to meet the requirements of the data sheet.  Most of the time those data sheets to actually alter the composition of the unit from the codex.

Agreed, Green Tide was a new unit, and so needed to be classified. Whereas others did not. The reason for my point was to get a like minded individual to agree that just because it doesn't say troop, as long as it's composed of units that are troops they're not changed to be non troops because of a one off classification.

For example Space marine companies are not classified as troops because they have a mix of units, the individual untis are well known, but a broad ruling could cause issues with the more, "cunning", rodent player.

Anyway, we're all good, I didn't mean to spark huge threads here, it's enough to know that we're all on the same page

Cheers,
Alan

[blantyr]

We have re-thought the deployment situation and while we will be sticking with the original "plan" I think players will be more than happy with how we allow them to set up.  As it stands now, a pair of players will have to deploy on a table (each team chooses where each person deploys, roughly 2 per table).  Spilling over onto an adjacent table is fine, so long as its "necessary."  This will still restrict players to an area but that area is far less ridged than the original idea intended it to be.  It accomplishes the goals Derek and I had in mind, allows for more structured deployment options as well as army comp options, and should keep players a bit happier overall.  More details on this will go out with the map of the table, which should be made available Wednesday at some point.

This is not a change to the deployment rules; I am just posting this to let the player base know that we have re-thought the idea and that it will be a bit more flexible than you have been lead to believe.

Appreciated.  That seems like a good balance between concerns.