Annual Megabattle Rules Questions

[Chase]

I'd also be disappointed if all objectives are in no man's land.  I prefer a shooting style, and am often discouraged trying to play in store whose style is driven towards assault.  A scenario where everywhere on the board we have assaults starting on turn one would be disappointing.  All this room, and were going into a scrum right off the bat?  Could we consider at least a few objectives where the assault guys have to worry about getting shot at before they are engaged?  I like the idea of big tables where the speed and range of the Eldar might possibly come into play as part of a maneuver battle.  If what we get is objectives centered in a 12 inch wide no man's land, things might turn rapidly into a rugby scrum.  Sure, I can bring all my wraith lords and wade in, but there ought to be more to the game than that.

This is a fair point.

The table currently has a moderate amount of its major features in No Mans Land but in talking to Derek the other day, it doesnt mean the actual objective on any given table has to be a major feature.

I may take a quick trip to the store later in the day to discuss table related things with Derek and whoever else is around.  If not, I hope to speak with people about it on Saturday and make sure everything is settled and emailed out by Sunday, which is when I will see Derek next if I don’t stop in tonight.

[Achillius]

Last year Simms was allowed to flank march his warhound out of the lava. 

That was ruled to be his table edge and so allowed. I am pretty sure that Flank March did not come into it. I don't remember all the fluff there but that's the way it worked. (Ketchup, not Lava)

So onto the question, to flank march or not to flank march.
I'm torn on this whole debate also. But I quite agree that Super heavies should not be allowed to magically appear in the rear. So to Bobs point the "flanks only" seems fine to me (though it kinda screws my A-- plan).  It sounds like there's only 4 flanks so I'm not sure it would be game turning.  Of course flank marching 1,000 guard to the enemies rear may be seen just as bad, but at least they're sneaking..


Cheers,
Alan

[Logan007]

Last year Simms was allowed to flank march his warhound out of the lava. 

That was ruled to be his table edge and so allowed. I am pretty sure that Flank March did not come into it. I don't remember all the fluff there but that's the way it worked. (Ketchup, not Lava)

So onto the question, to flank march or not to flank march.
I'm torn on this whole debate also. But I quite agree that Super heavies should not be allowed to magically appear in the rear. So to Bobs point the "flanks only" seems fine to me (though it kinda screws my A-- plan).  It sounds like there's only 4 flanks so I'm not sure it would be game turning.  Of course flank marching 1,000 guard to the enemies rear may be seen just as bad, but at least they're sneaking..


Cheers,
Alan

Flank march didn't come into because Disorder was told before the game started that we couldn't flank march there

As to Super heavies having to deploy before the battle starts, I'm somewhat torn too. On one hand, I think the strategic advantage to keeping superheavies (I'm thinking the really big guys, like titans and stuff) in reserve can't be overstated: it's incredibly hard for standard forces to react to a superheavy walking onto their quadrant, given the size of the table a smart player will deploy their superheavy out of range/los from most guns that can possibly hurt it. by the time the regular troops/tanks finally move into position, the game is liable to be over then.

Fluffwise, I also thinks it's lame to have superheavies "hidden". They're Gods of war and they're being kept in reserve? They should be spearheading assaults!

On the other hand, I don't feel comfortable restricting people this way (after all, it's only my own fluff interpretation -- it can easily be argued that since they're so valuable and rare, the adeptus mechanus won't commit them until the time is right). And it does limit the amount of strategic thinking involved with the game if we do it this way. I'm just concerned whether or not the game is balanced enough to support Superheavies coming in willy nilly.

Mike

[jesterofthedark]

I'm with you on that idea mike.  Personally, as an ork player my super-heavies are supposed to be out in front running at the enemy full gears.  Strategically, this causes problems since they can go up in flames to shooting relatively quickly.  But all is fair is war right?


I say pros to keeping something in reserve: you keep it safe for a turn or two and then come into the battle on your terms.  Cons: you lose the massive fire power of these monsters for all the turns they are not on the board.

Honestly, I think let everyone play it out as they see fit.  Each side can roll with the punches and deal with anything that comes in to play. 


"After all are we not the real Gods of War here!!"

Thats right quote me, write it down in a book.  Here after live by my lessons and you too shall find life as fulling as I do.

[Rob S]

"After all are we not the real Gods of War here!!"

The real one just entered this discussion right now.  Bow.

[jesterofthedark]

you've won this round sims.  Well played sir, well played.

[Achillius]

There are two points here to be clarified.

1. Super heavies allowed in Reserve?   YES.. seems to be the way most people think.

2. Super heavies allowed to flank march? No or limited to flanks seems to be what I'm hearing. So are Super heavies allowed to turn up in the enemies, erm, rear.

Cheers,
Alan

[the_trooper]

So, what is a daemon pack?  I see none in the current codex. 

I assume it is anything that is not a greater daemon, daemon prince, herald or soulgrinder.

So essentially a group of daemons not in the above group?

[Achillius]

Demon Packs don't exist any more any rules that referred to them are essentially null and void now.

Oh well.


Cheers,
Alan

[Chase]

Some rulings after discussion with Derek and several players:

Scoring:   Scoring is objective based.  Each table will have ONE objective that must be taken in order to score a point.  Points will be scored at the end of each round.  If your team meets the requirements for controlling an objective (stated below) at the end of a round you will earn 1 point for your side except in the case of the bridge, which will earn you 3 points.

Requirements for holding an objective:  A friendly Troop Choice is within 6 inches of an objective and an enemy Troop Choice is not.  This is a combination of the 5th Edition and Apocalypse objective claiming requirements adapted to best suit what we feel would yield the best game.

Super Heavies:  Super Heavies do not have to start on the table and may be held in reserve.  Super Heavies are not allowed to Flank March.

Deployment:  Everything you plan to put down on the table before round 1 begins must be deployed in your designated deployment area (each player will have his own).  If you hold things in reserve they may be deployed where ever you see fit.  Special rules trump this general rule.  Ex: Steve Rileys fliers.

Flank March:  You may only Flank March units onto the "top" or "bottom" edges of the table or your own table edge.  The inside edge and outside edge are off limits.


We will have an accurate map finished for you guys by the middle of next week.  I understand you require it for discussion and further planning but until we know exactly how each and every thing will work and where each and every objective will be it makes little sense to send out a map.

[blantyr]

Some rulings after discussion with Derek and several players:

Scoring:   Scoring is objective based.  Each table will have ONE objective that must be taken in order to score a point.  Points will be scored at the end of each round.  If your team meets the requirements for controlling an objective (stated below) at the end of a round you will earn 1 point for your side except in the case of the bridge, which will earn you 3 points.

By round, do you mean turn or player turn?  Will we count scores 6 times, or 12?

Deployment:  Everything you plan to put down on the table before round 1 begins must be deployed in your designated deployment area (each player will have his own).  If you hold things in reserve they may be deployed where ever you see fit.  Special rules trump this general rule.  Ex: Steve Rileys fliers.

Flank March:  You may only Flank March units onto the "top" or "bottom" edges of the table or your own table edge.  The inside edge and outside edge are off limits.

This seems to say all Rob's titans have to be clumped together?

It also seems to make life difficult for paired teams, where they guy with lots of tanks deploys with the guy with lots of troops.  Also, if the players don't have some input on the size and location of deployment zones, this effects strategy in terms of limiting the ability to concentrate forces in particular locations.

Is some flexibility negotiable?

[Chase]

Some rulings after discussion with Derek and several players:

Scoring:   Scoring is objective based.  Each table will have ONE objective that must be taken in order to score a point.  Points will be scored at the end of each round.  If your team meets the requirements for controlling an objective (stated below) at the end of a round you will earn 1 point for your side except in the case of the bridge, which will earn you 3 points.

By round, do you mean turn or player turn?  Will we count scores 6 times, or 12?

Deployment:  Everything you plan to put down on the table before round 1 begins must be deployed in your designated deployment area (each player will have his own).  If you hold things in reserve they may be deployed where ever you see fit.  Special rules trump this general rule.  Ex: Steve Rileys fliers.

Flank March:  You may only Flank March units onto the "top" or "bottom" edges of the table or your own table edge.  The inside edge and outside edge are off limits.

This seems to say all Rob's titans have to be clumped together?

It also seems to make life difficult for paired teams, where they guy with lots of tanks deploys with the guy with lots of troops.  Also, if the players don't have some input on the size and location of deployment zones, this effects strategy in terms of limiting the ability to concentrate forces in particular locations.

Is some flexibility negotiable?

Scoring will take place 6 times.


Some "problems" with the deployment rules have been brought up.  I will speak with Derek about the points made and see if any changes will be considered.

The rule was made in an effort to prevent concentrating forces to much at the start of the game.  Due to the scoring rules and the way setting up forces works (player 1 deploys, player 2 reacts and deploys) we found it likely that certain objectives would be simply ignored (or left under manned) by one of the teams from the get go in an effort to focus more heavily on another.  This is something we absolutely did not want.  Couple this with the fact that we allowed players to be a little bit more flexible with deployment last year (which was largely ignored) and that we want to promote "even" and "fair" match-ups on each table and there you go...  Remember, you have total deployment flexibility after turn one.  This allows both teams to react to the aftermath of each round in the same way.

The ruling does hurt Rob and what he was planning to do with his forces.  However I am lead to believe there are ways for him to get around this....   

Issues with poor player positions and the poor army / deployment synergy is something that the team and players should be prepared to work out.

If I recall correctly, each players DZ will be about 2 feet wide and 2.5 feet deep with a few exceptions.


.

[jesterofthedark]

I see the arguement that bob is making, but sadly this is countered simply by the fact that one can move their forces in the movement phase.  Of course a stand and shoot army will be hard pressed in this situation, mostly because the ideal situation is to deploy and not move after that.  A counter arguement can be made then that allowing player to deploy where ever results in a clump of gun lines that is near impossible to tackle.  Of course you can really argue anything in any situation.  The counter I would say to robs deployment problem is simply that yes you must deploy in your deployment zone but after that are allowed to march in reserves from your teams side.  This gives a teams reserves the chance to come in where needed.  You could also say that having rob put that many titans together results in a massive firepower zone of the field, one that could very well counter many things that were thrown at it.


And for fluff reasons I'm with the whole own deployment zone idea because in an actual war a few of these armies while willing to work "together" are not thrilled about working side by side.  Plus, any of the defending armies while having intel on the attack would not necessarily know how or where forces were coming with what amor or troops.  I just don't see it as being fluffy that a side could really co-ordinate their armies within multiple deployment zones to effectivly deal with what threats are dropped across from them.  That is why armies would come to the fight balanced in the first place.

I could be wrong in my view though.

[Chase]

Some more rules stuff:

Ork subs will only be able to deploy on the bridge table.  Since the table edge represents the "edge of the world" we will not allow players to "pretend" that their sub is somewhere off the table and still function.  There is no river present on any of the other tables and therefor no legal spot for a sub to land troops.
 
Also, Vital Objective will increase the value of an objective by 1 point.  Something worth 1 point will increase to 2 points, the bridge will increase from 3 points to 4.

[Rob S]

You could also say that having rob put that many titans together results in a massive firepower zone of the field, one that could very well counter many things that were thrown at it.

Is that really fair though?  I mean, whoever's across from me is boned if I have to concentrate most of my firepower there.  And I would for protection of my titans since they're all in one place.

The fluff reasoning that armies wouldn't want to intermingle makes sense, but I'd imagine titans would spread out, since this battlefield is comparatively small on their scale.