2000 Space Marines List, advice needed

[Benjamin]

Would you like to play-test this list versus me, ben? I'm looking for a 2k point game next thursday (if the power is restored )

As soon as I get the models, I'm play testing everyone. At once! Not really.

So far, I have three Thunderfire cannons (in the mail) and a scout squad. Gonna need a few more models. But once I have more of the army together, I'll take you up on that offer. You'll be all like, "greater good," and I'll be all like, "Spayss Mahreenz!"

[Wes]

Ben here is an easy solution, play against my Necrons, If you win, the list is safe to play, if you lose..... shame.

[Rurouni Benshin]

... The tact the conversation is taking almost has me thinking, maybe I should have various levels of the army. Fluffy fun, somewhat spam, and hell difficulty. Though I should try to get one list done before making 3 lists.

This immediately reminded of Diablo 2, where you've a choice of levels as you advance...  Very reminiscent.   

Ben here is an easy solution, play against my Necrons, If you win, the list is safe to play, if you lose..... shame.

But back on topic, I think having multiple lists of various themes, whether it be in terms of fluff or difficulty is what makes Space Marines so much fun to play.  I've had lots of fun playing all sorts of lists, and have never thought that I'd get tired of playing Space Marines once.  In fact, if I were to start a new army, it'd probably be an MEQ of some other codex.  I tried getting into Eldar, but just never had the initiative or motivation to really get into them. 

On another note, when I'm back in town, I'd really like to come by Plainville on a Thursday to see the 40K crowd.  And if you're up to it, I'd be more than happy to talk about my experiences with the "Spez Merinz" with you.   

[Ed]

ben next time your in town hit me up

[Rurouni Benshin]

ben next time your in town hit me up

You got it.

[Benjamin]

I picked up the bulk of the models for my army last night, yay!

My next question, what do you all think of the Chaplain? I am considering adding him in Terminator armor to the Terminator Assault Squad. Making the unit Fearless and giving them re-rolls to hit on the way in seems awesome, but is he 130 points awesome?

[Banosby]

Things that assault terminators don't kick the crap out of are things that kill them before they get to go anyway. Except maybe other assault terminators. Fearless is nice when you're foot slogging, not so much when you're getting transported. 130 points good? I'd rather have a librarian myself.

[Benjamin]

Things that assault terminators don't kick the crap out of are things that kill them before they get to go anyway. Except maybe other assault terminators. Fearless is nice when you're foot slogging, not so much when you're getting transported. 130 points good? I'd rather have a librarian myself.

Oh, I mean to have both in the squad. Too many eggs in a basket?

Keep in mind, while statistically unlikely, I fail Ld 10 tests like no one's business. For Space Marines in assault, that's okay. It's the tank shocking / shooting that concerns me most.

[LTKlaudius]

Try to find someone with assault granades to attach to the assault teminators, if that game with DA was any indication, lightning claws at init one are painful

[Banosby]

The model with the grenades would assault at normal initiative. The terminators would still assault at initiative 1.

[Benjamin]

The Thunder Hammers are always swinging at 1, so no disappointment. I'd run the Sarge with Lightning Claws, so he's the only one suffering through terrain, and he is really there just to soak up damage until the Hammers get to swing.

I think I could get away with the Chaplain at 2500 points, when I'd also likely have a bigger Assault Squad... But then that's getting quite ahead of the goal of just teaching.

Scouts are mostly assembled, ready for prime time. I think I'll work on Tac Marines next, 10 then a Razorback, another 10 then another Razorback...

[canadianone]

Do you think you will have 1000 points ready by thursday? just kidding, but when you do get 1000 points combat reasy, id love a game, i haven't gotten the chance to test them out against anything in power armor, and i want to see if they can cope. oh, and by the way, i love the idea of 3 thunder fire cannons.Any unit hit by that should have to take a moral check, and anyone who survives that much fire will probably have PTSD and a really bad twitch XD

[Benjamin]

Netflix put all the Gamera episodes of MST3k up last night... With one episode left, I've got 15 armless Marines and 5 Scouts mostly built. (I'm painting before the guns get glued in the way.) It's been a good day here.

This week actually looks quiet. If I build the Librarian and Assault Terminators, I'd crack 500 points. If I can get them ready, I can get my butt kicked with them this Thursday, after I teach Kristen how to play using the store's Black Reach kit.

[Benjamin]

An issue came up during Thursday 40k last night regarding how exactly cover is determined for the Thunderfire Cannon and really any artillery. Games Workshop isn't really clear about how to handle units of mixed types (i.e., vehicles and infantry). However, cover saves are absolutely critical to running Artillery successfully, so it's quite important that at a minimum I understand the ruling and to which rules I can point for any player.

One thought is that the Thunderfire Cannon gun is treated as a vehicle, so the gun itself needs 50% cover.

Another thought is that the gun is part of a unit, and if the crew is in cover, then half the unit is getting cover.

Sam and I disagreed on this issue, and I'd really hate to get in a slap fight with him because he rules against me in a tournament.

[Banosby]

I'm quoting from memory here, but I'm right, so whatever.

Rule 1: If 50% of a vehicle is obscured, the vehicle counts as obscured.
Rule 2: If any part of an infantry model is obscured, the model counts as obscured.
Rule 3: A Thunderfire Canon is a unit of two models, the Canon and the Techmarine.
Rule 4: If 50% of a unit is obscured, all models in the unit get a cover save.

Situations in which the unit gets a cover save:

The Thunderfire Canon is 20% obscured and the Techmarine is 20$ obscured.
The Thunderfire Canon is 50% obscured and the Techmarine is 0% obscured.
The Thunderfire Canon is 0% obscured and the Techmarine is 1% obscured.

Situations in which the unit gets no cover save:

The Thunderfire Canon is 0% obscured and the Techmarine is 0% obscured.
The Thunderfire Canon is 49% obscured and the Techmarine is 0% obscured.


So yes, it is very easy to ensure that the unit has cover. A few things to remember:

1. The Thunderfire Canon is not a barrage weapon. Line of sight is needed, and the barrel isn't exactly very elevated.

2. The Techmarine can bolster ruins, giving the unit a 3+ cover save.

3. The unit still goes down easy to anything with AP1/2 or a high rate of fire. Cover helps, but they are still very very fragile. Remember that any glancing or penetrating hit that gets through cover kills the Canon.