500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)

[Benjamin]

Well, sadly, a schedule conflict is going to prevent me from making this tourney.

You hitting up Mechanicon? I know some players heading out for that who would have otherwise played in the 500.

[KestrelM1]

You hitting up Mechanicon? I know some players heading out for that who would have otherwise played in the 500.

Nah, sadly the time commitment is work-related. I wanted to thank you for putting this together, btw, it looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. Hope you enjoy it

[Benjamin]

Nah, sadly the time commitment is work-related. I wanted to thank you for putting this together, btw, it looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. Hope you enjoy it

Thanks! My hope is that if all goes well, we'll be able to put on another similar event. All we have to do is merely live up to the hype.   

[Sir_Prometheus]

So, I'm signed up for this, but I am wicked, wicked torn about which race to play.

I've been on a pretty solid GK kick recently, but as some people may have noticed, it's really, really hard to fit a non-henchman list in 500 pts.  (and I don't have the models for henchmen)

The other option is Tau, which I certainly do have painted up and ready to go.  (though, notably not nearly as well painted as my GK, but I somehow doubt my GK would win the painting award, even though they're not bad).

Two lists look something like this:

500 Pts - Grey Knights Roster - 500 pts with daemonblade

Total Roster Cost: 500

HQ: Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (1#, 40 pts)
   1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor, 40 pts = (base cost 25 + Daemonblade x1 15)

Troops: Grey Knight Strike Squad (10#, 240 pts)
   1 Grey Knight Strike Squad, 20 pts + Psybolt Ammunition 20
      1 Justicar, 20 pts
      2 Grey Knights, 60 pts = 2 * 30 (base cost 20 + Psycannon 10)
      7 Grey Knights, 140 pts = 7 * 20

Troops: Grey Knight Strike Squad (6#, 160 pts)
   1 Grey Knight Strike Squad, 0 pts
      1 Justicar, 20 pts
      1 Grey Knight, 30 pts = (base cost 20 + Psycannon 10)
      3 Grey Knights, 60 pts = 3 * 20
      1 Razorback, 50 pts = (base cost 45 + Psybolt Ammunition 5)

Elite: Paladin Squad (1#, 60 pts)
   1 Paladin Squad, 0 pts
      1 Paladin, 60 pts = (base cost 55 + Master-craft Nemesis Weapon(s) 5)

I like this list, it has a good base, quite a bit of scoring, (though I notice you only have 2 and 1/2 missions that are objective based) some Str 5 shots, 3 psycannons, a heavy psybolter for range, and the paladin to cause some hearty disruption.  Nothing fancy, really but it seems like it'll get the job done.  The daeomonblade is just there for a lark, because when else would I ever take it?  500 pts is small enough that it could potentially affect things. 

But conversely, look what I can do with Tau:

500 Pts - Tau Empire Roster - Tau list with an Ion head

Total Roster Cost: 500

Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (11#, 77 pts)
   11 Kroot Carnivore Squad, 77 pts = 11 * 7

Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 pts)
   6 Fire Warrior, 60 pts = 6 * 10

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 140 pts)
   1 Hammerhead Gunship, 140 pts = (base cost 90 + Ion Cannon 15 + Smart Missile System 20 + Disruption Pod 5 + Multi-Tracker 10)

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 130 pts)
   1 Hammerhead Gunship, 130 pts = (base cost 90 + Ion Cannon 15 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5 + Multi-Tracker 10)

HQ: Commander Shas'el (1#, 93 pts)
   1 Commander Shas'el, 93 pts = (base cost 50 + Hard-wired Multi-tracker 5 + Plasma Rifle 20 + Twin Linked Missile Pod 18)

2 Hammerheads!  6 Str 7 Ap3 shots!  That'll de-mech you, and sorry you ever wore power armor.  As has been pointed out, the list can cover the entire board with shooting.  It also occurs to me that Kroot are quite good at this pt level. 

The Ion cannon is ridiculously cost efficient.  You usually never see it, because the Rail gun can do so much more, but at the pt level, I think it makes sense. 

It does occur to me that this list has nothing, at all, that can handle AV14.  If someone was crazy and brought a LR, I'd be screwed.  Feels slightly unlikely, though. 

Which do you guys think is the better list?

[Benjamin]

I see why you like the Tau list more. It is more well-rounded. But that's in part because the Paladin in the GK list seems so out of place. For that 60 points, you could have another Razorback, even if it's an empty firebase.

Also, I would be extraordinarily disappointed if no one brings a Land Raider. I'm pretty sure Black Templar and Blood Angels can squeeze one in.

[Bill]

Templar unfotunately cannot, stupid mandatory emp champ. I believe any marine that can take scouts as troops can.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I see why you like the Tau list more. It is more well-rounded. But that's in part because the Paladin in the GK list seems so out of place. For that 60 points, you could have another Razorback, even if it's an empty firebase.

Also, I would be extraordinarily disappointed if no one brings a Land Raider. I'm pretty sure Black Templar and Blood Angels can squeeze one in.

I'm confused, I hear a slightly contradictory message here.  The GK list can actually handle a LR pretty well, with Psycannons, while the Tau list couldn't.  I also wouldn't call the Tau list balanced, it's leaning on the Hammerheads pretty completely.

The lone paladin, hereby called a "Solodin" actually works great.  Remember, it has Holocaust, it's basically a one man DSing large Str 5 blast.  Plus the thing is disproportionately hard to kill (for 55 pts), so it's annoyance factor is huge.  The Killer App for it is when the opponent has something like huge block of lootas that need a bad day, or for cheap late scoring in a Darigo-wing list (you actually keep in reserve longer using psychic communion, if you can.)

The main downside to the Solodin is that it's a cheap kill point. But none of your missions have Kill points, so there you are.  In terms of victory points, it's probably a harder 55 pts to score than GKSS.

In other news, I managed to massage the Tau list to get a Rail gun in.  Required dropping the plasma cannon on the Shas'El, and a Kroot (sigh), but it's probably more powerful over all.  That's assuming someone doesn't score a lucky lascannon shot.  But with AV13 and an inherent 4+ save to anything more than 12" away, I'm probably OK. 

Oh!  I also had to give up the multi-tracker on one of them, the railhead is only moving 6" a turn.  (double-sigh)

500 Pts - Tau Empire Roster - Tau list with an Ion head

Total Roster Cost: 500

Troops: Kroot Carnivore Squad (10#, 70 pts)
   10 Kroot Carnivore Squad, 70 pts = 10 * 7

Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 pts)
   6 Fire Warrior, 60 pts = 6 * 10

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 155 pts)
   1 Hammerhead Gunship, 155 pts = (base cost 90 + Railgun 50 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5)

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 130 pts)
   1 Hammerhead Gunship, 130 pts = (base cost 90 + Ion Cannon 15 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5 + Multi-Tracker 10)

HQ: Commander Shas'el (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Commander Shas'el, 85 pts = (base cost 50 + Fusion Blaster 12 + Hard-wired Multi-tracker 5 + Twin Linked Missile Pod 18)

[Benjamin]

Templar unfotunately cannot, stupid mandatory emp champ. I believe any marine that can take scouts as troops can.

"Every Black Templars army of at least 750 points must include an Emperor's Champion." (p. 31)

This is one of those rare games you don't have to take him!

[Bill]

Oh snap! I never played under 1k and never noticed that rule lol.

[KestrelM1]

My vote for Tau:

Shas'el Battlesuit w/ Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker (83)

Crisis Battlesuit w/ Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer (47)
Crisis Battlesuit w/ Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer (47)
Crisis Battlesuit w/ Twin-Linked Missile Pod, Flamer (47)

6 Fire Warriors (60)
10 Kroot (70)

Broadside w/ Black Sun Filter (73)
Broadside w/ Black Sun Filter (73)

You might have trouble killing marines, but boy will Mech-spam hate you, and you'll be a pain in the arse to pin down.

[KestrelM1]

Or for even more fun:

Inquisitor Coteaz (100)

Ordo Whatever Inquisitor w/ Servo Skull (28)

3xInquisitorial Servitors w/ Multi-Meltas - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Bolter (85)
3xInquisitorial Servitors w/ Multi-Meltas - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Bolter (85)
3xAcolytes - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (67)
3xAcolytes - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (67)
3xAcolytes - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (67)

Suck it, Imperial Guard

[Sir_Prometheus]

Well, I dunno how much Rhino spam you need to contend with in 500 pts.  The two Ionheads or an Ionhead and railhead, with the Shas'El with missiles, seem more than enough to deal with 3 or 4 rhinos, which is the most I could envision seeing.  

The main thing driving the hammerheads over cheaper broadsides is survivability.  AV13 with an automatic 4+ cover is about as survivable as a Land Raider, in my experience.  The fact I can be the full 60" away the board allows, even moreso.  

[canadianone]

wait, an acolyte is only 4 points!?!?!? what are their stats and war gear?

[KestrelM1]

wait, an acolyte is only 4 points!?!?!? what are their stats and war gear?

They're Guardsmen (i.e., 3s across the board) except they have LD8. They have a Laspistol, CCW, and Flak Armor. They notably do not have any grenades, but you only need to take 3 to take a transport.

[Benjamin]

Well, I dunno how much Rhino spam you need to contend with in 500 pts.

Did you see that post above yours? 5 Chimeras should give you some idea of the high end.