500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)

[keithb]

I generally think the first mission is poor.  Why penalize someone for taking a bunch of troops?  He MUST take at least 2.  Why not make everything but troops give double?

Every single player must take at least 2 Troops to fill the Force Org chart. So it's not someone, it's everyone. No one player is getting singled out.

If you can provide a concrete example of how armies would be *unfairly* penalized, that's what I need to see. Some codices will have cheap enough units to allow more than 2 scoring units; an asset in objectives, but a liability here.

But why not make the other units double? A couple reasons.

The first is that there are some cheap HQ units for whom doubling VP value makes little difference in the game over all. Each scoring unit for most armies is on average expensive enough to affect a difference across all lists, regardless of codex. And the principle is the same, whether it be objectives or Kill Troops! Don't let the enemy kill your scoring units while trying to kill his.

The second reason is the real possibility of the Most Boring Game ever. It's too easy to hide an HQ for the entire game, and that's the only other guaranteed unit choice.


This conversation made me realize that by wording, Swarms are not scoring units and so will not count as double! But there's the problem of not being able to hold objectives in other missions...

Armies with expensive troops would be at a disadvantage in that game.   Armies with cheap troops can take more other things and better protect their troops.

[Ian Mulligan]

And mechanized armies are at a disadvantage for kill points, etc. Its the nature of the game.

[keithb]

Armies can choose to take mech or not.  Armies with overly expensive troops cannot choose to pay less.

[Benjamin]

Armies can choose to take mech or not.  Armies with overly expensive troops cannot choose to pay less.

I like to think the game is balanced enough in concept where the more expensive Troops are more resilient than the less expensive Troops.

Which game-breaking Troops are you talking about here, Keith? Necrons, of course, no brainer. That one's been acknowledged out of the gate here and since the beginning of 5th Edition. Sisters now require 10-lady squads at a minimum, but that wasn't so when this idea started.

I find it a difficult argument any of the MEQ armies are overly expensive, as the game is based on them. Maybe there is a problem more wide-spread than I imagine, but at the moment, I honestly can't imagine it. I need to see specific examples.

[canadianone]

Okay, so bad news for everyone else, i am officially using this thread to keep track of painting my 500 point army. just weekly updates for motivational purposes.


done:
5 fire warriors
1 gun drone

to do:
devil fish
2x crisis suits
command suit
fire warrior
gun drone
shield drone
broadside (assuming i get it and dont just borrow one from someone)

[Bromeo]

Alright guys, Chase told me to post the link for Combat Patrol in here so he could read it. I think that everyone else should probably look at it too to see what it is exactly (read:500pt tournament). IMHO, Combat Patrol is the answer to all the problems.

ALL OF THEM.

http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/2011cp.pdf

[Benjamin]

Alright guys, Chase told me to post the link for Combat Patrol in here so he could read it. I think that everyone else should probably look at it too to see what it is exactly (read:500pt tournament). IMHO, Combat Patrol is the answer to all the problems.

ALL OF THEM.

I'm looking forward to seeing that link. And to having all of the problems solved. I didn't realize there were so many.

[Benjamin]

Okay, so bad news for everyone else, i am officially using this thread to keep track of painting my 500 point army. just weekly updates for motivational purposes.

Words of encouragement here.

[Dissimulation]

http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/2011cp.pdf

 

[Bromeo]

http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/2011cp.pdf

 

Fuck you Kevin.

[KestrelM1]

Which game-breaking Troops are you talking about here, Keith? Necrons, of course, no brainer. That one's been acknowledged out of the gate here and since the beginning of 5th Edition. Sisters now require 10-lady squads at a minimum, but that wasn't so when this idea started.

Can I use this space to officially petition to ignore the WD "Codex" all together and just use the Witch Hunters Codex for Tournaments? The WD is literally just a kick in the balls to sisters players in terms of competitive viability, and I think you'll make a lot of people happy by ignoring it completely.

[canadianone]

goddamnit people, this is not combat patrol. When ben and i were talking about this, we weren't talking about combat patrol. we wanted to literally play a tournament with small games of 40k. we didn't want weird rules with caveats and exceptions. 1 HQ and 2 troops. that is pretty simple for everyone to pull off, except for maybe necrons, but you know, they can still field a list. If you really dont like 500 point games, go make a freaking combat patrol tourney and let us have our 500 point one. let me reiterate, we knew about combat patrol when we started thinking about this, and there is a reason we didn't just go that route, that was not the goal.

[canadianone]

oh, and on that note, i think ill complain that combat patrol doesn't allow me to field a competitive tyranid list, so we cant do it. see how stupid i just sounded there? if you think there are problems with this tournament, and the only way to solve them is by doing combat patrol, well, then this is not the tournament for you, dont attend.

[Bromeo]

oh, and on that note, i think ill complain that combat patrol doesn't allow me to field a competitive tyranid list, so we cant do it. see how stupid i just sounded there? if you think there are problems with this tournament, and the only way to solve them is by doing combat patrol, well, then this is not the tournament for you, dont attend.

Whoa, hey there man, just chill. I didn't remember that we already talked about Combat Patrol OK? I just thought that the tournament could still use some work dude.

[Benjamin]

Deep breath. Relax. You're all on an island.



I'll read the combat patrol stuff tonight and post my thoughts later. It may inspire me toward new missions, which we still can use. I have a draft of the announcement out for review/editing. Hopefully I will have a draft of the mission write-ups and illustrations in the next couple days.