500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)

[canadianone]

yeah, grey knights, you get 5 models, lucky you

[tilarium]

Was wondering, with 500 points, what would be the army requirements?  1 HQ, 2 troop?  Like I said, a guard player can easily field a 500 troop choice... a guard player can easily field a 1000 point troop choice.....

[Benjamin]

Was wondering, with 500 points, what would be the army requirements?  1 HQ, 2 troop? 

Yup. 1 HQ, 2 Troops. Minimum FOC requirements.

[Benjamin]

You could always have the prize be a free 500 point army!

I've been mulling something like this over, and it's a sticking point.

A Daemon list...

Herald of Khorne
Herald of Khorne
Herald of Khorne
Herald of Khorne
Nurglings
Nurglings
Soul Grinder

Retail value, over $200.

Carte blanche would be difficult to keep reasonable. I can't even imagine the damage IG would rack up given carte blanche. I'd have to chat with Chase about an event's financial expectations.

There are a few solutions I have in mind, in no particular order.

1. Winner take all. Pro: A bigger prize likely to draw more players, winner gets to pick what they like. Con: Only one prize, increased likelihood of bitching and grumpiness.

2. Pre-picked 500 point armies. Pro: Finances are dictated, more prizes. Con: Maybe you don't want one of the choices. It would be a bit of work, but perhaps with an option like this, 500 point lists can be for every codex.

3. 500 point army with an established monetary limit. Pro: Best of both worlds. Con: Some choices and armies are more expensive than others.

4. Straight store credit, homie.

[tilarium]

FYI, I love store credit, you always get what you want and if you don't, it's your own fault so you can't gripe.

[Bromeo]

Store Credit seems like the best idea. This entire thing seems like a good idea. The only thing I don't like is using Kill Points. It seems like just Victory Points is a better idea, since some armies would be really easy to either rack up or lose KPs. Like Necrons.

[Benjamin]

... since some armies would be really easy to either rack up or lose KPs.

That's a criticism of KPs that holds regardless of points.

And no one is likely bringing Necrons.

Necron Lord, Res Orb
10 Warriors
10 Warriors

That's 500 points. If you want to change the list, it's because you don't like the Res Orb. Still, it's like 21 Marines that an opponent would have to remove... Oh wait, 16.

[keithb]

I don't think it would be terrible to say necrons don't phase out at 500 points.

[Benjamin]

I don't think it would be terrible to say necrons don't phase out at 500 points.

Probably by the time an event like this happens, Phase Out shouldn't be an issue.

Let's put it this way. Does it make a difference? To the Necron players, sure. To determining a winner? Not so much.

[Chase]

I might already know the answer, but I clearly forget...  Tilarium, who are you?

[steelforge]

On table size:
The game is geared to 4x6.
Weapon distance and vehicle movement is factored around that.
Having 4x4 or 4x3 is going to neuter some armies hard.
For Example:

IG/Tau vs: Blood Angels/Dark Eldar/to a lesser degree Sisters of Battle.

Turn 1: BA/DE/SoB start as far forward as possible. And then the IG/Tau are in assault or on fire.
Turn 2: Game over

Blood Angels' 18 inch moving Rhinos, the zooming Dark Eldar, really make a 4x4 or 4x3 unbalanced.

[Chase]

I suppose the same could be said about the 500 point limit though, right?  Surely the game is not balanced around 500 point games...

[Benjamin]

Blood Angels' 18 inch moving Rhinos, the zooming Dark Eldar, really make a 4x4 or 4x3 unbalanced.

Counter-example. There are fewer places for the Tau's enemies to hide before they are shot dead, and their railguns will always have range.

I think the issue is 500 may neuter some lists and/or concepts, and it's very difficult to attempt an all-comers list. But I don't believe 500 neuters Tau harder than anyone else, especially seeing them rise as champs of the Minibattle. They're still bringing serious dakka. Imbalances exist across the game, regardless of points.

But then all that is why this needs to be tested extensively. It's arguing theory in a vacuum.

One more thing: Simon found out no one will really have to worry about Sisters anymore. With the downgrades, units are somehow becoming more expensive points-wise. Codex fail imminent.

[canadianone]

Wait, you mean simon wont be playing his sisters in the semi's of ard boyz? YES! I stand a chance!

[steelforge]

"There are fewer places for the Tau's enemies to hide before they are shot dead, and their railguns will always have range."

Yes.  That actually supports the thesis.  The railgun (if you bring a !50+point gun to a 500pt match) actually gets to fire before being blown up.  Also it forces the tactical use of cover.

As for is the game balanced at 500 points, it should be "relatively balanced" (removing Codex creep etc) yes, as it's meant to scale point wise as evidenced by 'Ard Boyz to Kill Teams.