500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)

[Benjamin]

This is a thread for our new, hot topic of 500 point games. Post whatever about 500 armies, be it game theory, lists or rules suggestions.

Our first concept worth discussing, a Singles tournament of 500 point armies. Can a fair event be constructed?

[Edit to add] The most important rule is that any 500 point list must still adhere to the Force Organization chart. In other words, each list must meet the 1 HQ, 2 Troops requirement.

Table size. I'm thinking 4x3'. The area definitely needs to be smaller than regulation in order to force the action. There can be two games to a table.

Time, 45 minutes per round. Keep it snappy!

Victory! I think a simple W/L format is easy here. 5 rounds can determine a single undefeated player in a field of 32 players. In the case of a mission draw, Victory Points as a default tie-breaker. In case of a draw with VPs, then it's a draw! Overall placing can also be tie-broken by VPs.

For missions, Kill Points and Victory Points, results determined by a preset margin >1. (To prevent, "Now I run away for 4 turns!")  Objectives, I'm thinking a flat 3. I have to dig through the old Warhammer books for other mission ideas, some of them are very different.

With 5 matches, I think we can have a bit more fun with Deployment too. Nothing too crazy, but we can break the mold of the Big 3 a bit. The later rounds should be more traditional and proven, so that the winner is not determined by some fluke.

Models must be WYSIWYG. They do not have to be painted at all.

So, what else am I missing?

[canadianone]

first of all, thanks for starting this thread ben. second, i love it! but thats probably just because i am starting a new army. now for a real point, with pointiness behind it. I agree the fields should be smaller, that will mean getting into the fight, not just shooting and running, but I think that 3 ft wide isn't quite wide enough, that would basically mean both armies have to walk into each other with little room for maneuvering. how about 4x4 ft, 3 games over 2 tables?   

[Benjamin]

how about 4x4 ft, 3 games over 2 tables?   

If you can think of a way to divide that up well...

Doesn't Warmachine run 4x4'? What do those guys do?

[Ian Mulligan]

We have to use the 6x4s, blocking off 2', because of the metal sides on the tables.

[the_trooper]

500 points has some potential for craziness. 

500 points of termies?
500 points of thunderwolf calvary?
500 points of hydras?

Also for 500 points, a painting rule would be easy for everyone involved and add something nice.

For rules, why not use an expanded kill team that Sam was running for a while?

[canadianone]

well, in my experience we have pushed 2 table together giving us 12 feet of table, then divide them into 3, but i just realized that with the ridges on the side of your tables that wont work. well, wed probably have enough room if we just used 4 feet of each table. It just feels like 3x4 is too small to work with, but that could also be just me.

[Benjamin]

For rules, why not use an expanded kill team that Sam was running for a while?

Because it had too many rules and way too many restrictions for far too few figures. As it is 500 points, gives Necrons only 30 points to play with.

It'd be 500 points, still adhering to the FOC. 1 HQ, 2 Troops requirement must be met.

Even then, things can be very silly crazy. Yes, you can take Mephiston, or Draigo and 2 squads of 2 paladins, or Fateweaver and Nurglings, or Imperial Guard silliness, or Space Marines bringing Scouts and Dreadnoughts... Craziest wins.

Assualt on Black Reach is about 500 points each side, and the demo worked on a 4x3' table. We'd have to test this more extensively. Come up with lists and scenarios where 4x3' would fail.

[canadianone]

Well, Ben, we could do some practice games to see how it would work, im just thinking about genestealers and the like, with only 3 ft, there is no where on the board they cannot strike, but lets test it out with some 500 point games to see, i have no experience in this, so i might be talking out my arse when i say 4x3 is too small.

[Dissimulation]

let the record show that i am anti-4x3

[Benjamin]

let the record show that i am anti-4x3

Any objection other than the Greater Good?

[Loranus]

4x3 favors too many races and limits some builds people can do.  The max Range you can get on the table is 48.7 " and thats table corner to table corner.

Quick List here the 4x3 would hamper and would work decently on a 4x6"


HQ: Master of the Forge With Conversion Beamer 120
Troops: 5 Man Tac Squad + Rhino  125
Troop: 5 Man Tac Squad + Heavy Bolter Razorback 130
Elite/Heavy Support: Dreadnought Double Twinlinked Autocannon 125
Point Cost: 500

The Second Anyone is 6 inches away from the corner of a 4x3 board the Master loses his Best damage range never mind the scatter for it if something is in that corner. Tau going first would have open fire on anything on the board since you cant deploy really to avoid it they will shoot up most of your army.

[canadianone]

Yeah, and making the table so small again means that there is only 3 ft wide to maneuver left to right, and when you think about it, again that means that assault armies with lots of models with fleet will easily be able to assault, and again, there is the problem of out flanking, only 3 ft wide gives you VERY little room to hide. 

[Dissimulation]

I feel like the 4x4 would put *some* lists at a disadvantage, but it would mainly just put an emphasis on mobility. Whether that be through outflanking (which would be way more effective), deep striking or plain moving fast I'm fairly certain that every army could find a way.

4x6 is too big, though.

[Benjamin]

Tau going first would have open fire on anything on the board since you cant deploy really to avoid it they will shoot up most of your army.

This statement describes Tau, or any gunline, in almost every game.

there is the problem of out flanking, only 3 ft wide gives you VERY little room to hide.  

Hiding? Warhammer, you're doing it wrong.  But I see your point. To protect against Infiltration/assault, one would have to deploy within the middle 12" of a 3' side.

4x4 is as big as I'd consider. 4x6 with 500 points, that's far too big of a board. I know one thing for sure. If there's a tournament, and the tables are declared a certain size, people will make lists around that.

Some armies like close-quarters, others like space. I think I'd have to see lists of advantages side-by-side.

One consequence of 500 points I'm seeing in these arguments is really the bigger issue of rock, paper, scissors. With 500 points, you pretty much have to bring one or the other or the other. It's seems hard to make an effective all-comers list.

[Benjamin]

The max Range you can get on the table is 48.7 " and thats table corner to table corner.

Corner to corner on a 4x3' is 5' (60").