500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)

[Benjamin]

Isn't all of these arguments just a point to build a list that works with the format? Arguments can be made and specific lists built that work great in both table sizes so I suggest just setting a table size and people will have to deal with. The game is built around skill and just dealing with situations.

Yeah, I didn't even think of Flyers moving and trying to stay on a 4x4 table.

I'm still going to fix this and allow Fortifications. I'm flip-flopping, just in time for election season.

[Benjamin]

Warlord Traits. Here's what I'm considering.

Did you bring an HQ? Great! You get Warlord Traits.

Did you not bring an HQ? Well, then you don't have an eligible model for Warlord Traits, so you don't get Warlord Traits.

Straight forward, right?

[andalucien]

Is anyone really going to bring an aegis line with a quad gun and then only 400 pts of guys?   I agree there's no reason to ban fortifications, so simpler is better, let them be played. 

Yeah I like the warlord trait policy you suggested.

[Benjamin]

Is anyone really going to bring an aegis line with a quad gun and then only 400 pts of guys?

It's possible you'll see lists like that, but I too doubt anyone will play with it. The lists were crazy last year, but when it came to crunch time everyone went conservative... well, almost everyone. Looking at you, Benjamin.

[Loranus]

I brought 11 Bikes Last time. As for the HQ thing oh look you took an HQ you get a Warlord Trait which most are useless . An Aegis is so good in this at least having the Fortification. 2 20 Shoota Boyz  a 9 man Lootaz all Behind an Aegis with something else >.>.

[MM3791]

I think you should ban anything av13+ because that is an almost autowin against Orks who have almost no way of handling it at 500pts (heck it is tough enough at 1850).

Um, Orks can take allies that can easily fill that gap. That was one of the main reasons for its addition to 6th ed

[Benjamin]

If a player rolls Legendary Fighter as a Warlord Trait for their HQ (p 111), the rule will remain identical for the tournament. Hilarious!

[Mad Dok Rob]

I think you should ban anything av13+ because that is an almost autowin against Orks who have almost no way of handling it at 500pts (heck it is tough enough at 1850).

Um, Orks can take allies that can easily fill that gap. That was one of the main reasons for its addition to 6th ed

Ummm, since to take allies we have to take an allied HQ and a unit of troops to fill that gap at 500pts, it is basically playing the ally and not the Orks.

And by that reasoning, everyone can take someone that can deal with flyers, so it shouldn't be a problem (just about everyone can ally with the best anti-air unit in the game.  Da Lootaz)

[Mad Dok Rob]

Is anyone really going to bring an aegis line with a quad gun and then only 400 pts of guys?   I agree there's no reason to ban fortifications, so simpler is better, let them be played. 

Yeah I like the warlord trait policy you suggested.

I would definitely run a AGL with my shootas and lootas.  4+/2+ cover save is awesome when you have no armor and a ton of shots.

[Tharcil]

I would suggest not over thinking things like what can or can't be used at 500.  These things have a way of working themselves out with the limitations of the points.  If someone wants to spend 1/2 their points on a land raider let them.  Limiting what someone can take based on another codex's ability to counter at this level would be far too time consuming.  Frankly if someone can come up with something that unstoppable (not saying the land raider is) that has no counter, good for them for bringing a good list...isn't that the same possibility at any point level?

I'd really like the time an energy put into building scenarios and getting them play tested with various armies prior to the event.  I have no idea how much play testing usually goes on with the scenarios, but that is really the best way to see what will work and what won't.  If you go this way I would also suggest posting what is being tested so there are no feelings that those testing have some kind of advantage.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Last time I used two hammerheads.  That was both overkill, and pretty awesome -- I don't think anyone had a problem with it.  Part of the point was to see what nasty crap you could put in 500 pts, right?

Allow flyers......we'll see what happens.  But then yes, you have to allow fortifications....and yes I might very well take a bastion.  Find a way to deal with it!

I just do't think you can take this stuff too seriously, it's half for yucks. 

Oh, btw, Demons will totally kill you all. 

[MM3791]

Ummm, since to take allies we have to take an allied HQ and a unit of troops to fill that gap at 500pts, it is basically playing the ally and not the Orks.

yea but you also mentioned they had little anti-air at 1850 too

And by that reasoning, everyone can take someone that can deal with flyers, so it shouldn't be a problem (just about everyone can ally with the best anti-air unit in the game.  Da Lootaz)

Exactly my point.

[Mad Dok Rob]

yea but you also mentioned they had little anti-air at 1850 too

I think you meant to say anti-tank.  Orks have TONS of anti-air.  And yeah, Orks have a tougher time of anti-tank at 1850, no melta but we can make it work....especially when your weirdboyz can puke on tanks.  The point was more directed at 500pt games.

[Benjamin]

Limiting what someone can take based on another codex's ability to counter at this level would be far too time consuming. 

Not really. Ban Flyers. Done. Comp is easy!

But I won't be doing that. Flyers will be fine if we include Fortifications. And we will. So, yeah.

Frankly if someone can come up with something that unstoppable (not saying the land raider is) that has no counter, good for them for bringing a good list...isn't that the same possibility at any point level?

I think it is far less likely at higher point values. In a 1750 list, for example, you can bring many more tools. Some players are near-unstoppable, but that's a different story.

I'd really like the time an energy put into building scenarios and getting them play tested with various armies prior to the event.  I have no idea how much play testing usually goes on with the scenarios, but that is really the best way to see what will work and what won't.  If you go this way I would also suggest posting what is being tested so there are no feelings that those testing have some kind of advantage.

I have a strong feeling these scenarios will be fine. That said, I love playtesting and I love when other people playtest. It's all too rare that players pitch in. But if they do help, they do get a leg-up in experience.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Landraider has some of the easiest counters in the world: Melta/Meltabomb/hammer/fist.  And all those are short ranged and we're talking about a smaller than normal board.  I'm a huge LR fan, but I certainly can't see taking one in 500 pts.