Author Topic: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)  (Read 66739 times)

Logan007

  • Epic Tier Level 22
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #360 on: April 11, 2012, 02:08:14 PM »
Only so much you can spend 50 points on in Space Marines.

There is only one way SM know how to spend 50 pts. 

RAZORBACKS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Technically 40, but who's counting?  ;)

#queuejokesaboutAsiansbeinggoodatmath

That's racist :)

Sir_Prometheus

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #361 on: April 13, 2012, 06:30:09 PM »
Only so much you can spend 50 points on in Space Marines.

There is only one way SM know how to spend 50 pts. 

RAZORBACKS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Technically 40, but who's counting?  ;)

#queuejokesaboutAsiansbeinggoodatmath

That's racist :)

My razorbacks are 50.  Don't stereotype, stop the hate.

Besides......they all look alike.  (the razorbacks)

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #362 on: October 20, 2012, 10:41:22 AM »
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
Oh, I've heard that before Necro-bot!

After watching a 500 point game at Thursday 40k, and watching the one of the coolest endings to a game I can recall, I'm all fired up for another 500 point tournament.

It would be January at the soonest, and depending on demand, which gives me a couple months to ignore the much bigger 40k events along the way. :P

I'm strongly considering 500 points, and a modified FOC of requiring only 1 Troop choice (no mandatory HQ). I'd like to think this might help some of the power armor armies a bit, but it's all speculation.

andalucien

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #363 on: October 20, 2012, 11:25:19 AM »
I would be all over that... 500 pts, 5 rounds? 
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #364 on: October 20, 2012, 01:03:48 PM »
Yup! 500 points, 5 rounds. Same structure as the first 500 point event, with W-L and brackets.

Still a shame I can't figure out how to run a Doubles 500 point event in a reasonable fashion.

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #365 on: November 03, 2012, 03:49:33 PM »
Time to make tournament sausage. How does this look to people? It's basically a copy-and-paste from last year, with a few differences.

Armies will be required to take only 2 Troops. No mandatory HQ! Allied Detachments will be required to take an HQ choice. (I think it's possible to actually take allies at 500 points.) 2 Troops minimum helps keep mission design reasonable.

Sixth Edition rules with Fifth Edition Victory Points.

No Fortress of Redemption.

Only one mission will use Mysterious Objectives.

PLEASE NOTE: This is not an official declaration. It is a draft.

Format: Singles (1v1) 500 points per person
Entrance Fee: $15.00 per person

** This event will NOT count toward Battleground Invitational Standings. **

Contact:
This event will be capped at 32 players.

Registration will begin XX day at YY o'clock. Our events fill up fast so if you know you're going to play don't hesitate to sign up.

RULES FOR WARHAMMER 40K TOURNAMENT

Rule Books:
The Warhammer 40,000 Sixth Edition Rules will be used.

The following is a list of legal army choices:
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Chaos Daemons (including White Dwarf updates)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Necrons
Codex: Orks
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Tau Empire
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf)


MODELS AND POINTS:

1. Each player must bring an army consisting of no more than 500 points in accordance with these rules...

2. Each list must include 2 Troops choices at a minimum. A player may choose to bring an HQ choice, but a player is not required to bring an HQ choice. In every other way, follow the Force Organization Chart. This includes any Allied Detachments being required to take an HQ choice.

3. The Fortress of Redemption will NOT be allowed. All other Fortifications will be permitted.

4. All models must follow “What You See Is What You Get” (WYSIWYG) and be painted to a minimum three-color standard. All weapons, war gear, and so forth must be represented on the model.

5. Forge World Imperial Armor units (and army lists) may NOT be used. Forge world models may be used where appropriate, however.

6. We require each player submits an itemized army list to a Battleground Tournament Organizer on or before XX XX, 2012 (roughly a week before the event). An Army Builder .pdf is preferred but a detailed text file (.txt) is acceptable.

Please email lists to ChaseLaq@gmail.com as soon as they are finalized.

7. If illegal units or other rules violations are found in a player’s army list, at a minimum, the models in violation will be removed from all subsequent play. In addition, tournament results may be deducted and/or award eligibility may be forfeited. If in doubt, please ask for clarification in advance from a Battleground Tournament Organizer.


HOW THE TOURNAMENT WORKS:

Competitors will participate in five (5) games over the course of the event. In each game, you will play a scenario and record the outcome of the battle on your mission sheet. Each game is of random length per the Warhammer rulebook (5-7 turns).

Each game is designed to produce a win/loss result. If one player's entire army is wiped out, the game ends immediately and his opponent automatically wins. Likewise, if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins.

Victory Points will serve as the tie-breaker, in respect to draw results and determining overall ranking.

Victory Points in this tournament will differ from the Sixth Edition rulebook. In this tournament, Victory Points are defined as they were in 5th Edition, as follows:

Units Destroyed
At the end of the game, every unit that has been destroyed is worth an amount of Victory Points equal to its points cost (including the cost of all its extra wargear, vehicle upgrades, etc). Units that end the game falling back or off the battlefield count as destroyed.

Units at Half Strength
At the end of the game, every enemy surviving unit that has lost half of its initial models or more is worth an amount of Victory Points equal to half its points cost (including the cost of all its extra wargear, vehicle upgrades, etc), rounded down. In the case of units that start the game as a single model (independent characters, monstrous creatures, etc), they are worth half their points in composition points if they have lost half or more of the Wounds on their profile. In the case of vehicles, they are worth half their points cost in Victory Points if they are suffering from the effects of any Damaged result at the end of the game; or if they have lost half or more of the Hull Points on their profile.


Rounds 1 and 2 will determine for which bracket a player is eligible.

After Round 2, the overall field will be divided into 4 brackets based on performance.
Bracket 1 - eight 2-0 players
Bracket 2 - eight 1-1 players (top half)
Bracket 3 - eight 1-1 players (bottom half)
Bracket 4 - eight 0-2 players
Once brackets are determined, points will be reset to zero and players will compete only against other players from within their bracket.

In the first round, opponents will be determined randomly. We will try our best not to pair players that come to the event together in the first round. For the second round, players will be matched up according to current rankings in the tournament (based record and then the number of victory points scored). The player in first place will play the player in second place and so on. From the third round on, matches are determined by the bracket system. If for some reason there are less than 32 players, the 4th bracket will always be the smallest.

The event is designed for every player to play every round. If a player receives a BYE, they will be awarded a win with average victory points for the round.

You will not play the same person twice during the first two rounds. Though unlikely, you may face one or both of these opponents again if you are placed in the same bracket!

We will do our best to prevent a player from playing on the same table twice.

The pairings for each round will be announced as soon as they are determined. Please be sure to arrive at your table ready to play right away.

Slow playing will NOT be tolerated. Players are expected to complete at least 4 rounds. If you suspect your opponent is slow playing PLEASE notify a Battleground staff member as soon as possible as we can not do anything about alleged slow play after the fact.

Each game will be played on a 4' x 4' board.

Players will receive Results Sheets at the beginning of each round. Each results sheet must be filled in properly to ensure that match-ups and point totals are correct. Once Results Sheets are completed they are to be turned in at the counter so the scores can be entered into the computer.


BATTLES:

The Sixth Edition Rulebook will be in use for all games and will be the definitive guide for all rules. We will be using the Games Workshop FAQs & Errata for this event.

The time limit for each game is 45 minutes. At the end of this time limit, the round will be called. Players are expected to finish their game immediately, and no additional time will be provided.

What You Need to Bring with You:
- Your painted miniatures
- At least TWO copies of your army list
- Rulebooks are required as are any additional books you need
- Pen and paper
- Dice and templates
- Tape measure
- Something to transport your army from table to table
- Because of the tournament's use of Victory Points, please calculate values for 1/2 squads and damaged vehicles in advance.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 11:34:08 AM by Benjamin »

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #366 on: November 03, 2012, 04:44:40 PM »
Missions I'm considering, not in any particular order. (I'll be making pictures for Deployments, too.)

Deployment: Vanguard Strike (modified) / Diagonal. 34" in each direction from the corner of deployment.
Mission: 3 Objectives, 2 Armies, 1 Winner, 0 Tolerance.
One in the table center. One placed along the deployment line by each player, at least 6" from table edge.

Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Mission: 5 objectives (4 in table quarters, 1 in center), mysterious objectives. (Chart will be provided as part of mission packet)


Deployment: Dawn of War
Mission: Kill Troops!
Game decided by Victory Points. For this mission, Troops choices are worth double VPs.

Deployment: Spearhead (modified), 9" circle of 'non-deployment' in middle of table
Mission: No Quarter, No Retreat
Units in killed in your deployment zone count as double Victory Points for this mission. At the end of the game, your opponent counts your half-strength units remaining in your deployment zone as full VPs scored. A unit is in a deployment zone only if the majority of the unit's models are in the zone. If a unit's position is unable to be determined, it is settled by a roll-off.

Deployment: Dawn of War
Mission: Church & Trench
This mission will function as The Relic (p 131), with the following exceptions. This mission will have two Relics equidistantly placed along the center line. Each Relic will be able to be moved at most 3". A unit can control only one Relic at a time.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 02:17:46 AM by Benjamin »

andalucien

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #367 on: November 03, 2012, 06:08:34 PM »
Super pumped.
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #368 on: November 03, 2012, 07:08:36 PM »
I'm tweaking the definition of Victory Points as it relates to vehicles. Hull Points weren't in 5th. It's harder to get a damage result to actually stick to a vehicle, and if you do manage it, most likely the vehicle is destroyed. So I think this is a change that makes sense to bridge the editions.

In the case of vehicles, they are worth half their points cost in Victory Points if they are suffering from the effects of any Damaged result at the end of the game; or if they have lost half or more of the Hull Points on their profile.

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #369 on: November 03, 2012, 10:27:54 PM »
I do have a concern about whether to allow Flyers at 500 points.

If more books had more access to ways to deal with Flyers, I'd feel better. But it seems early in the edition and not everything is quite up to par in this regard.

I want to hear people's thoughts. My brain says no, my gut says allow them. And I tend to go with my gut.

andalucien

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #370 on: November 03, 2012, 11:35:07 PM »
Yeah... with only 500 points, it is hard for a lot of armies to include a contingency plan for fighting flyers.    If someone brings a tooled up grey knight stormraven to this tournament, it seems like a lot of armies would just have no way to deal with it at all.  Or what about a Lord of Change?   I mean, I guess that could be just another "metagame consideration" but it does seem like from a practical perspective it could lead to a lot of uninteresting games where one army consists mainly of some giant flying thing that the other guy can't shoot down.   

It does suck to tell people (myself included) that they can't play with their toys though.  If you do ban anything I recommend that it be from a conclusion drawn from playtesting, rather than speculation. 
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

PhoenixFire

  • Epic Tier Level 30
  • ****
  • Posts: 1049
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #371 on: November 04, 2012, 10:36:09 AM »
I'd say no to flyers,

the aforementioned fully loaded stormraven (which would be hard to afford at 500 pts)
the feared chaos dragon with bale flamer
valkarie with pieplates
Orc dakka jet
etc

might be hard on 500 point armies since many of them will be without vehicles, just my 2 cents.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 10:40:00 AM by PhoenixFire »

Mad Dok Rob

  • Paragon Tier Level 16
  • ***
  • Posts: 564
  • Da Orks are Da Best
    • http://fingerpaintingwitharchimedes.blogspot.com/
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #372 on: November 04, 2012, 10:44:21 AM »
If you start banning types of units, I think you are going to be going down a slippery slope.

Case in point, if you are banning flyers, I think you should ban anything av13+ because that is an almost autowin against Orks who have almost no way of handling it at 500pts (heck it is tough enough at 1850).

http://fingerpaintingwitharchimedes.blogspot.com/

Warhammer 40k
6,914 pts Waaagh Dakkagut (Goff Orks)
4,913 pts Dark Angels 

Warmachine   
     183 pts Protectorate of Menoth

Bill

  • Paragon Tier Level 14
  • ***
  • Posts: 500
  • Dark Star Founding Member
    • Dark Star
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #373 on: November 04, 2012, 11:19:52 AM »
Isn't all of these arguments just a point to build a list that works with the format? Arguments can be made and specific lists built that work great in both table sizes so I suggest just setting a table size and people will have to deal with. The game is built around skill and just dealing with situations.

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: 500 Points about 500 Points (Lists, Touraments & Rules, oh my!)
« Reply #374 on: November 04, 2012, 11:26:40 AM »
If you start banning types of units, I think you are going to be going down a slippery slope.

Case in point, if you are banning flyers, I think you should ban anything av13+ because that is an almost autowin against Orks who have almost no way of handling it at 500pts (heck it is tough enough at 1850).
In this case, it's wouldn't be a slippery slope. Eventually, more codices should have ways to directly address Flyers. AV13 has been around long enough for every book to have some answer for it. Whether you take the answer or not is up to you.

My gut says yes to Flyers, because that means someone is spending a full quarter of their points on a single model.

I do think I decided against Fortifications for no good reason. Every army can take a Fortification, and some of those deal with Flyers. So that's probably the answer I need. Allow Fortifications (except Fortress of Redemption) and allow Flyers. Inclusion is always the better choice.

Playtesting would be nice. Lists would be more reasonable.