Author Topic: I guess i just like hooves  (Read 2362 times)

canadianone

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I guess i just like hooves
« on: August 10, 2011, 11:26:48 AM »
So, im going from Tyranids, and starting... TAU! (the only two hoofed armies in 40k). Now, i am going from a swarm assault army, to an elite shooting army, and i feel a little out of my depth. After reading the codex, i have decided that i want lots of suits, but basically thats about it. I have come up with a 1000 point army list, and if there are any tau players out there, i would love some help!


Shas' el
missile pod, plasma rifle
target array, HW multi tracker, HW drone controller
2x shield drones

Shas' ui (goes with HQ)
missile pod, plasma rifle
multi tracker

2x shas' ui
burst cannon, missile pod
multi tracker

2x shas' ui
TL missile pod, flamer

6x fire warriors

devil fish
disruption pods

10x kroot

11x kroot

broadside
drone controller, shield drone

broadside
drone controller, shield drone

hammer head
rail run, burst cannon
disruption pod




This is my first time so feel free to tear this apart, and if you are so inclined, you can laugh and internet point
Tau theme song, "jump around"

Dissimulation

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 01:09:31 PM »
**edited to look nicer**

The elite choices look good, but the burst cannons are a waste because the short range puts your crisis suits in danger and the power isn't enough to justify that. The units are also very weak because they have no shield drones and have the same wargear. If you lose one of the crisis suits (which is very likely) the low LD will result in the other one running away.

The troops also look good, minimum firewarriors in a devilfish can be good for taking objectives, However, If you give your devilfish a 40 pt upgrade (DPod, Multi-tracker, smart missle system, targetting array) you go from 5 shots at BS 3 to 7 shots at BS 4 that you can fire while moving. The indirect fire is really nice too.

The broadside teams without the A.S.S. will be questionable, but since you have two of them you can probably put them each in a good vantage point to ensure that one of them has sight of the vehicle you want to pop. However, you should be wary of LD on these guys too. If you lose the shield drone you will be forced to make a check because of the small unit size (I usually run Broadside teamleader w/ HW drone controller, 2 shield drones, 2 team members and everyone with A.S.S.)

Finally, the hammerhead will be nice because of the Pie plate, but if you are going to give it advanced weapons it would probably be best to give it smart missles. In low point value games hammerheads can be really nice, especially with multi-trackers. The mobility is priceless. But when you start to get near 2000 pts the hammerheads lose their touch since the board, unfortunately, doesn't get any bigger and you run out of room to manuever.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 01:52:54 PM by Dissimulation »
Time for my tau jumpy phase

Bromeo

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 01:47:00 PM »
Yeah, not having A.S.S. on those Broadsides is kinda counter-intuitive, seeing as they're Broad.

Get it? A.S.S.? BROADsides? They have fat asses?

canadianone

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 02:11:43 PM »
I have yet to really test this list, but it seems that if i have two broad sides, i can put them at different board edges to prevent people hiding from them. To be honest, i didn't like the dakka suits either, they were forcefully suggested to me as a must have, but i like the cheaper TL mp/ flamer suits. I know its dangerous having the suits with out drones, and if they keep dieing/ running away, i will probably find points for them, but for now, i am going to try to keep them far away from the enemy, and use the assault jump to hug cover.


So here is the new list

Shas' el
missile pod, plasma rifle
target array, HW multi tracker,
HW drone controller 2x shield drones, HW black sun filter

Shas' ui (goes with HQ)
missile pod, plasma rifle
multi tracker

2x shas' ui
TL missile pod, flamer

2x shas' ui
TL missile pod, flamer

6x fire warriors

devil fish
disruption pods, multi tracker

10x kroot

10x kroot

broadside
drone controller, shield drone

broadside
drone controller, shield drone

hammer head
rail run, burst cannon
disruption pod



should the multi tracker go on the hammer head, or the fish?
Tau theme song, "jump around"

Serring

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 03:21:14 PM »
Hammerhead, then I can move 6" and fire all of its weapons or move 12" to get a better angle for the railgun. Also If you can get the 5pts for a target lock on the hammerhead the burst cannons could shoot at infantry while the railgun shoots a tank (you can split fire).

Benjamin

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 03:25:37 PM »
The second list is definitely better than the first.

If my friend John is around, I'll make sure to introduce you to him. He was there last Thursday running Tau, and he can puts together some solid lists. Tau really only have a couple lists that work competitively, and you've already sniffed out the best one with crisis suits and broadsides.

One more thing, I believe Tau are the next army to get a new codex after Necrons. So within 6-9 months, things could be radically different for the Greater Good.

Seth

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 03:28:41 PM »
it better not be after necrons i think eldar are oldest. plus space marines haven't been redone in a week so they need to squeeze them inbetween
those who win every battle are not really skillful- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all.  ~Master Sun Tzu

jhobin

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 04:27:50 PM »
Rather than two single broadside's, if you merge them together and give them ASS and upgrade one to a team leader with target lock you can fire at two different target's and save your self some points on the 2x extra Shield drones. Oh yea give them a bonding knife you don't want your Broad side team running and not be able to rally after it loses its drones.

I've usually found with crisis teams it's best to stick to a dedicated role and mix up the equipment for wound allocation. For a close quarters squad I usually go 1.)FB/PR/MT 2.)FB/PR/MT team lead BK 3.)FB/PR/DC 2xDrones (usually shield) its a little pricey but kills MEQ real good. For cheap good shots 1.)2xMP,TL,BK 2.)2xMP/FL 3.)2xMP,DC 2xGun drones its 6 TwinLinked Missile pod shots a round, if you have the points you can give the Team Lead Target lock so you can split fire.

I almost always give my Kroot, shapers and a couple of hounds. Shaper's while pricey the upgrade in LD is huge. Hounds are just fun as well especially at I5.

I love the Tau there a fun army. They can be difficult to play though you have to play smart. I usually play a positional relay army and have a blast playing.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 04:53:51 PM by jhobin »
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Vermillion

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 05:54:51 PM »
This is my position as a Tau player (and a lot of people are going to make an argument against what I have to say) but Kroot are basically useless. You take 10 in order to be able to take 10 hounds which are slightly more passable, but you only even do that if you know who you're up against. Thick infantry armor will just laugh at Kroot, and hit you back twice as hard. With no armor to speak of (and I don't consider 6+ to be speak worthy) they can be useful as one time, outflanking squads to make a mess of a particular enemy unit but you will lose them, and it will hurt. While I'm not that big of a fan of fire warriors either, you're better off with 6 in a devilfish (because it's cheaper). And I know you have that in there, but I do mean 2 squads of them. Keep them back near your lines for holding objectives or objectives that are completely in the open (you get a coversave anyway) so you can get clear firing lines on advancing units.

 Try a squad of pathfinders and keep their devilfish on the back line so you can bring in a group of FW from reserve and pop them right in. Tau transports are tough and hard to pin down, and you can use them as mobile Seeker launchers in a pinch. I wouldn't bother upgrading their weapons, you have enough str 5 ap 5 shots in the army as it is and the few extra shots it provides won't help you much. But absolutely spend the points on the Disruption pod, Flechette dischargers and a seeker. Keeping seekers on all sides of the board will almost always guarantee you side armor of whatever vehicle is on the board. Besides, you should be prioritizing your opponents vehicles with broadside fire anyway, so your opponent should have fewer ways to deal with nimble transports with a near permanent 4+ cover save.

Cheap squads of crisis suits are fine, but death rains (TL MP + FL) are better at engaging medium infantry or light vehicles. And since you have no power weapons in the entire army (with the obvious exception) you're going to find that MEQ armies and FNP are going to haunt you in your sleep. I would say forgo the shield drones in the crisis suit squads or change them for gun drones (for cost) and rely on the crisis suits ability to deny firing lines and stay away from most infantry, you can use the points elsewhere. Like say, more Tau Plasma Rifles. You've already got enough weapons with a comparable stat line to the MP (submunition, the MPs on fireknife suits[TPR+MP]), you can leave one like that but the more TPRs you have the better off you'll be. Keep at 24+ inches (outside most standard firing range and well outside of most charge ranges) and focus fire your opponents largest threats to widdle them down. You will lose crisis suits, but what's more important is the damage you do, and shots on your crisis suits are shots they're not putting on broadsides or transports with squishy fire warriors in them.

I know you're only at 1000 points looking into it, but when you look to expand you might consider a piranha or two. You can load them with two seekers each, run them up the side lines at flat out, and then still fire the seekers using markerlights. It's a nasty surprise the first turn of the game and a great way to deal with anything that has much stronger front armor than sides (like battlewagons and predators). Basically, the higher you go in points with the Tau the better they get. That includes apocalypse, Tau start getting pretty mean when they have mobile stealth field emitters and tigersharks.
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Dissimulation

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 06:03:57 PM »
I wouldn't take the shaper, impo. The points for the upgrade is too great for the return. Also, the hounds i wouldn't take either. Hounds are only useful in CC, when i have my kroot next to something i want to kill and it has higher initiative than me/I'd have to charge through difficult I like to rapid fire them instead for 2 guaranteed str 4 hits instead of 3 from whomever lives.

I agree that wound allocation is usually not very useful on a crisis team, but shield drones are. I wouldn't take them without em :P. str 8 ap 3 rockets are scary XD.

Multi-tracker can go anywhere. I really like to make my devilfish expensive, my whole list relies on them. I use them as movable terrain that I can use to make jump-shoot-jump as effective as it can be. Another nice thing about having many devilfish is that once a unit reaches your lines you can drive all the devilfish right up to the unit, disembark all your troops out the back, and rapid fire! Add markerlights to make it especially fun :P.

usually I like to take a unit of wound-allocated crisis suits to deepstrike in.
(Team leader w/ hardwired drone controller, Misslepod, Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker, 2x Shield drones
Team member w/ multi-tracker, Misslepod, Plasma Rifle
Team member w/ multi-tracker, Misslepod, Fusion blaster)

This loadout, while it is wound allocated, still has a dedicated role.
Time for my tau jumpy phase

jhobin

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2011, 11:11:07 AM »
I initially didn't like kroot at all. In fact I didn't even own any for year's.

When I first brought them I took the stock 10 and they did nothing, and they got creamed every time. I started taking the shaper at the suggestion of Rick and they started performing much better. The boost in LD is well worth it in my opinion. The other is wound allocation, because he has three wounds you can take non-instant kills wounds on him to prevent LD checks. I now take them with a couple of hounds. I found that they have 2 good use's one is sitting in cover preferably woods and firing there Kroot guns the other is outflanking. There not great in hth but in numbers they can take out a >5 MEQ unit and are good at killing scouts. Against non-meq they do a little better.

At last years DaBoyzGT I took a maxed out kroot squad. It surprisingly rocked. It was able to kill a 10 man assault squad in 1 round. Mainly because of wound allocation between the shaper's and the krootox. When the whole unit can use it's attacks its a hammer. Granted its expensive.

My suggestion would be to give them a try with different combo's they might surprise you. 
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Dissimulation

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 11:54:00 AM »
one thing's for sure kroot can definitely get multiple jobs done. Their main purpose for me is just to take objectives, that's why i take 11 in the pathfinder fish. But, like jhobin said they can also be really handy in assault. However, i find the max'd squad is a little bulky when I'm trying to maneuver on the board.
Time for my tau jumpy phase

jhobin

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 12:20:02 PM »
Oh, they are definitely bulky!

I'm am also a huge fan of the pathfinder's I think there a necessity in just about every Tau list with exception of the Fish o' Fury. They even have there place in that list with EMP grenades.

I also like Vespid, I usually play a squad of 8 in the relay army.
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Moss:"Where all going to die!"

canadianone

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2011, 01:04:42 PM »
Thanks everyone for being so helpful! And yes, i NEED path finders, but right now, almost all my shooting units are either BS4 or better, or TL'd, and so i think they would be wasted, but in bigger games when i get something like a full unit of fireknives, i can see path finders being a great addition plus you get the fish with the nice positional marker that can be usurped by some more fire warriors.
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Dissimulation

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Re: I guess i just like hooves
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2011, 11:44:59 PM »
The reason i like taking pathfinders is in a competition setting you are able to use the marklights to boost any type of shooting that you need for the certain matchup. It makes your list fairly flexible. The reduction of cover saves is amazing too.
Time for my tau jumpy phase