[Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k Ard Boyz Preliminary Round - Aug 14th

[GossWeapon]

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

[keithb]

Oh, I don't mind being called out. I like to know when I've done something untoward. Like most people, I sometimes do things I oughtn't without realizing it, and rather someone told me than didn't. As for doing it publicly, perhaps others can learn from my mistakes.

I wasn't "Calling you out" per say, I was genuinely curious why someone who had already secured a spot would play again the next day.  Also, I don't speak for anyone other than myself.  As for doing in a public forum,  I was looking to ask a question/discuss.  That is all.

Keith, I know more people that have gone to GTs in the past year specifically to get a ticket to the Nova Invitational (and also to the ToS, but not to the same degree) than have gone to win the prize support. With the possible exception of the Boston Brawl this year, I'm unaware of any GT where the prize support is a major draw. On the flip side, surely the first place prize in the second round isn't the primary reason people play HB. If it were, no one would ever play in the finals. I'm just guessing, but I think the prime motivator for playing in HB is the same as in GTs, and that the motivation is that people enjoy playing a bunch of 40k in a day against people they don't normally play.

I never mentioned going for prize support in a GT.  I said going to win or compete, and for many, it is to see people they rarely see and hang out drink/game.   I certainly don't think it is ever for more  army men.

Many people specifically DO NOT play in the finals, it is a trip to play as you put it...  3 games with silly rules.  I know 6 people personally who only play to get the free army and do no go to the finals.  That is just in New England/New York.  I can't speak to the Nova invitational, but I did have a ticket to ToS and chose not to go due to the ruleset and timing.  This is also the first year for the invitational no?  I know Mike has been promoting the heck out of it.

Either way, your comparison isn't valid, as ToS invites and Nova invites are not the only reason to attend a GT.   Ard boyz is only about Ard boyz.

Again, that doesn't mean you shouldn't go, I was just asking why and explaining my own opinion on the matter.

But I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the 40k community. Suppose you're right and that my analogy was deeply flawed. Still, I'm confused about your position. And I'd like to get clear on it so that I can better determine whether it is a sound one. Although, to be honest, I'm inclined to act in accordance with it on the assumption that upsetting people is worse than not. Is one of the following your position? And if not, what is your position?

1. If there is a competition that you cannot win, you ought not enter the competition because by doing so, you may skew the results.

2. If there is a competition the prize of which you cannot claim, you ought not enter the competition because by doing so, you may skew the results.

I'm genuinely curious, and not trying to put words in your mouth by suggesting either of the above. Just trying to get clear about your objection to my actions.

As to how good I am, you know as well as I do that winning a 10 person event with weird rules and an abnormal point level is a poor indicator of skill.

I can certainly agree with your last point Simon, but that isn't why I consider you a good player.

I was going to write something else entirely, but I felt it would seem more that I was blaming you or Emory for something.  I am not.

It isn't against the rules for you to play as far as I know.

I will say though, it looks like the winner was/is related to Emory.   I don't really know either of them, so I am not making any accusations at all towards anyone.  But you(simon) and Emory were basically ringers who could win a store credit prize.   You were both also in a position to help decide the winner if you both chose to.  (NOT saying that you did, merely that it was possible, I don't even know if you two know each other).

Eliminating that possibility is a good thing, IMHO.

Please take this post as a discussion rather than something "blaming" people for a problem or accusing anyone of anything, as that is how it is intended.

GL in the Semis

[Benjamin]

I don't really know either of them, so I am not making any accusations at all towards anyone.  But...

I'm not going to say that quote is inflammatory. But it is.

[Ian Mulligan]

I don't really know either of them, so I am not making any accusations at all towards anyone.  But...

I'm not going to say that quote is inflammatory. But it is.

Ben, every time you've made a post lately, I begin to think you're handsomer and smarter.

[Benjamin]

Ben, every time you've made a post lately, I begin to think you're handsomer and smarter.

Me too. 

[keithb]

Read the rest of the paragraph.

The possibility of it happening is a problem IMHO.  Simply having players in the position to do is the issue.  That was the point of my example.  I made no accusations towards Simon or anyone else.

[canadianone]

Keith, not trying to be rude here mate, but there is such a thing as quitting while you are ahead. Ben is right, that post is unnecessary, you wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't mean anything by it. Simon clobbered me, which meant that he would go on to play willem. Simon is VERY good, and that would have been and exceedingly difficult game for willem We didn't, nor is there any way we could have helped each other, nor would we. In the same way that your post wasn't an accusation, this post is not a rise to that challenge. again quit while youre ahead mate.

[Bromeo]

Hate to be a Nosy Nellie, but what exactly is the problem here?

[Banosby]

I wasn't "Calling you out" per say, I was genuinely curious why someone who had already secured a spot would play again the next day.  Also, I don't speak for anyone other than myself.  As for doing in a public forum,  I was looking to ask a question/discuss.  That is all.

I don't think there is any ill will on either side. Apologies if it seemed I was imputing acrimony by using the phrase 'calling out'. All in all, this has been a pleasant discussion.

I never mentioned going for prize support in a GT.  I said going to win or compete, and for many, it is to see people they rarely see and hang out drink/game.   I certainly don't think it is ever for more  army men.

That's exactly why I was at HB. I went down to Game On because I heard they had cleaned themselves up and I wanted to see some old friends. I went to BG because I had been planning on it for a while and a bunch of friends were playing. And Wyatt was going to be there, and I wanted to thank him in person for a commission he had recently done for me. And, of course, I like 40k.

I will say though, it looks like the winner was/is related to Emory.   I don't really know either of them, so I am not making any accusations at all towards anyone.  But you(simon) and Emory were basically ringers who could win a store credit prize.   You were both also in a position to help decide the winner if you both chose to.  (NOT saying that you did, merely that it was possible, I don't even know if you two know each other).

Eliminating that possibility is a good thing, IMHO.

I agree, sort of. This wouldn't be the first time I was in a position to determine the winner of a tournament. That, by itself, isn't a problem. The problem is that I could try to get a 'scrub' into the next round to make the field easier for myself then*. Which would take a fair bit of planning, but it wouldn't be super hard for someone to assume that's what I did (I am, of course, not calling Willem a scrub). To be honest, I'm not sure there's anything unethical in entering a tournament so that you can throw some games to make later rounds easier on yourself. But I do know I wouldn't want to do that. Next year I may have to keep to one, on the assumption I make in the first time around.

*The more I think about it, the more I think this wouldn't work. Suppose I could get someone who isn't very good into the semis. Given that I am no more likely to play him than anyone else, I'd be just as likely to make someone else's schedule easier as to make mine easier. In fact, I'm much more likely to make my field harder; if there are 12 people, I have a 1/10 chance of being the guy who plays the scrub, and a 9/10 chance of giving someone an easy first round-massacre. So ya...the more I think about it, the more I think that if I did try to get someone easy in, I'd just be hurting myself.

[keithb]

Keith, not trying to be rude here mate, but there is such a thing as quitting while you are ahead. Ben is right, that post is unnecessary, you wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't mean anything by it. Simon clobbered me, which meant that he would go on to play willem. Simon is VERY good, and that would have been and exceedingly difficult game for willem We didn't, nor is there any way we could have helped each other, nor would we. In the same way that your post wasn't an accusation, this post is not a rise to that challenge. again quit while youre ahead mate.

I brought it up because Simon seemed genuinely interested in my issues with it.  I stated very clearly that my issue with it is that it was possible.  Not that it happened.  I have no way of knowing if it happened, and I do not accuse people if I have no knowledge.  From what I know of Simon, he wouldn't ever cheat in the way I described.  I also wouldn't imagine him someone to lie about a family emergency.  I can't comment on you as I don't know you.  I have no reason to think that you would cheat either.

Read my post.  I stated exactly what I mean.   The simple fact that you or simon WERE IN A POSITION to do it if you so chose, is a problem, IMHO.   Which is what Simon was asking.

Let me be clear again,  I do not think that you or simon cheated, and I am not accussing you or simon of cheating in any way.

I am simply explaining exactly why I feel the way I do, as it was requested.  I tried to be very clear in my previous description.  I picked you two, as you have the same last name and if you WERE going to help anyone, it would be reasonable to assume it would have been him.

I think that based on other threads I've posted in, If I was going to accuse you of cheating, you would know I would do it directly.

Your presence at the event gives you the possibility to do exactly what I described.  Simon beating you is irrelevant.  



@ Simon, I agree that it isn't terribly likely in that case, but that doesn't make it impossible for you to achieve.

[canadianone]

little plastic spacemen. I just cant be concerned enough to continue this discussion. I hope there are no hard feelings to anyone.

[Banosby]

Guys, while I maybe wouldn't have gone about it in quite the way Keith did, he isn't being a jerk. And he certainly wasn't accusing of anything. The appearance of cheating can be just as harmful as cheating. And I, for one, can understand his point.

[keithb]

Thank Simon. That was all I was trying to convey.

[Ian Mulligan]

There is a lesson here: Brevity is pretty cool some times.

[Benjamin]

There is a lesson here: Brevity is pretty cool some times.

Word.