[Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k Ard Boyz Preliminary Round - Aug 14th

[canadianone]

Well, i cant answer for simon, but i too had already qualified. I was there for the same reason i go to any tournament. Getting in games, hanging out with people, and the possibility of winning a prize. The added benefits here were that it was free, and i got practice for round 2. We both passed down our qualifications though, so its not like we hogged any of the places. plus, simon, thanks for that commendation! our game was great, and i really thought i had you for a turn or 2, sorry again for continually moving things too far, next time i go to BG, im picking up one of your 6x4x2x1 templates.

[Bill]

I think what Keith is getting at is not passing the ticket it is the potential of every person you play giving or taking points away. Every outcome; whether it is you getting massacred, massacreing or anything in between effects the standings and this wonky when the person already has gotten to the next round.

This is the reason why GW has DQ'd people in the past for doing this. They see the same names getting prize support two days and they "pump the brakes"

[Chase]

next time i go to BG, im picking up one of your 6x4x2x1 templates.

They're all gone already... hopefully it's not another 10 months before I can get them again. 

[keithb]

Well, i cant answer for simon, but i too had already qualified. I was there for the same reason i go to any tournament. Getting in games, hanging out with people, and the possibility of winning a prize. The added benefits here were that it was free, and i got practice for round 2. We both passed down our qualifications though, so its not like we hogged any of the places. plus, simon, thanks for that commendation! our game was great, and i really thought i had you for a turn or 2, sorry again for continually moving things too far, next time i go to BG, im picking up one of your 6x4x2x1 templates.

You must pass any spot you get down, you cannot qualify at more than one store.  So it isn't like you are going "above and beyond" as it were.   

All it means, assuming you and Simon are good players (which I think you both are) is that who ever draws you guys during any of the rounds have less of a chance of continuing than the people that don't play you or simon. 

So, people who don't play you, get two benefits. 

1) You deny other people at the event points. 

2) You do not displace them in the final standings.

The fact that you and simon were in positions to give up your places, means that together, you took 3-4 people out of the running.  In a field of what, 10-12 people..  Lets say 12.

That means that you and simon + the people you played, were half the field.  Only because you two played each other, otherwise it would have been 2/3rds the field.   

It ends up being that you two basically decided who got to continue and who didn't.   Doesn't seem quite fair.

[Banosby]

I was there because I enjoy playing 40k, and this was an opportunity to get a few games in at a points level I rarely get to play. And with a codex that'll be illegal soon.

I'm a bit confused as to why this would be a problem. As Canada1 pointed out, it didn't prevent a full three people from moving on. And no one was disadvantaged by my being there; no one had a worse chance of making it going into the tournament because I was there. Perhaps I'm just used to other systems in which there are qualifiers; back when I was playing Magic, placing in one qualifier had no impact on your ability to play in another.

All that said, if my being at BG yesterday was in contravention of either GW policy, BG policy, or the general norms of the local 40k community, I apologize and will refrain from doing so in the future.

@Canadianone: I believe I have an extra tac ruler lying around if you want to borrow it until BG gets theirs in.

@Keithb: Your newest post showed up before I could post this. If your argument is sound, wouldn't that mean I should never play in a tournament? If I do well, I'm always keeping someone from placing. Is there something particular about 'ard boys that is pertinent here?

Both the Throne of Skulls and the Nova Invitational are tournaments to which one must be invited by placing high enough in various GTs (although I think the Throne of Skulls might be changing that). Do you think that if you have already qualified for one of those tournaments, you shouldn't go to any other GTs?

For the record, I asked the TO to make sure I wasn't keeping anyone from competing. I was ready to drop out if the space was needed for someone who hadn't qualified.

Also for the record, I don't think I'm any better than the field yesterday. In my first game I got lucky and tank-shocked a full unit of Wytches and Vect off the table. My second game can only be described as an exceedingly good match-up for me. And one in which my plasma guns couldn't miss.

[Benjamin]

I think the bigger question is, if you already had a spot in semis, why were you there?

Yeah, I want my entry fee back.

 

[canadianone]

I AM THE DECIDER WHO CHOOSES WHO STAYS AND GOES


not really. There were 3 gun line lists i can think of off the top of my head that would have tabled me. One of which i played, and true to form, i got nigh tabled for 0 points. Simon also got 0 points in one of his games. We had no choice in who we played, we didn't "decide anything" the first round i played was random, and the 3rd game was against some one who was in the middle/bottom of the pack, so its not like i bumped off anyone who was really close to winning. And like bansoby, i wouldn't call myself better than a bunch of people, the other place i played had 6 people at it, so no great victory there, and in both my games, my dice helped where they needed.

[keithb]

Really Simon?

Comparing 'ard boyz to the indy GT circuit is silly.   The main point of going to GTs is to... Win the GT.

ToS is a throw in, an afterthought. Winning an actual GT is a far bigger prize than being invited to ToS.  

The main point of 'ard boyz is to win the semi final round.

Simon, how can you suggest you were not better than the field, you qualified twice this weekend.  That would make you better than 2 separate fields.

Justify it however you like, your comparison is not valid though.

[canadianone]

Kieth, I am sorry you didn't make it, but that doesn't mean you should start calling us out and slandering us. I am pretty new to BG, and i would prefer it if you didn't make it so everyone thinks i am some scuz bag. This is the second time in one day you have publicly criticized people, if you have a problem, talk to us individually and privately.

[Seth]

He kicked my ass and taught me a lot about my army i hadn't realized. i played him first round and didn't mind that he had won and even knew that he had already gotten in. maybe i would have done a little better had he not been there but it was a lot better to get some great games in with good people. these are the message board forums were we talk and discuss ideas not slander and hate people. he is right you have been on a rampage before and if you had of had a problem maybe bringing it up and discussing it with chase at the beginning of the day. what is done is done you can't change the past and in the future take control and talk to someone in charge and maybe you won't feel so slighted after the fact.

[Banosby]

Oh, I don't mind being called out. I like to know when I've done something untoward. Like most people, I sometimes do things I oughtn't without realizing it, and rather someone told me than didn't. As for doing it publicly, perhaps others can learn from my mistakes.

Keith, I know more people that have gone to GTs in the past year specifically to get a ticket to the Nova Invitational (and also to the ToS, but not to the same degree) than have gone to win the prize support. With the possible exception of the Boston Brawl this year, I'm unaware of any GT where the prize support is a major draw. On the flip side, surely the first place prize in the second round isn't the primary reason people play HB. If it were, no one would ever play in the finals. I'm just guessing, but I think the prime motivator for playing in HB is the same as in GTs, and that the motivation is that people enjoy playing a bunch of 40k in a day against people they don't normally play.

But I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the 40k community. Suppose you're right and that my analogy was deeply flawed. Still, I'm confused about your position. And I'd like to get clear on it so that I can better determine whether it is a sound one. Although, to be honest, I'm inclined to act in accordance with it on the assumption that upsetting people is worse than not. Is one of the following your position? And if not, what is your position?

1. If there is a competition that you cannot win, you ought not enter the competition because by doing so, you may skew the results.

2. If there is a competition the prize of which you cannot claim, you ought not enter the competition because by doing so, you may skew the results.

I'm genuinely curious, and not trying to put words in your mouth by suggesting either of the above. Just trying to get clear about your objection to my actions.

As to how good I am, you know as well as I do that winning a 10 person event with weird rules and an abnormal point level is a poor indicator of skill.

[Ian Mulligan]

If the TOs approved, I fail to see what the problem is. Rather than blame the player for anything, perhaps it would be more prudent to raise your objections to how things were run with the hosting store.

[NChomsky3d]

Well, I'm walking into a minefield, but here is how I see how it might be a problem.  Forgetting the first couple rounds, if you win the tournament you're probably playing someone else who has a similar chance to win.  If you table them, they get knocked way down and you get pushed to the top, but then give your spot up to someone with less points.  It's not a disadvantage to the person you beat, per se, but it's a definite advantage to the people who come in 4th and 5th.  I didn't play here, mainly because I'd already placed and didn't want to make the trek, but I can see how some people might have an issue.  But since the TO said it was ok, that has to be the ruling on the field that people have to live with.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I think the bigger question is, if you already had a spot in semis, why were you there?

Yeah, I want my entry fee back.

 

This made my day...  Thanks, Ben! 

(still laughing....   )

[keithb]

If the TOs approved, I fail to see what the problem is. Rather than blame the player for anything, perhaps it would be more prudent to raise your objections to how things were run with the hosting store.

Not blaming anyone.   Just asking why.