Rules Rules Rules! (4th ed. D&D)

[Guu]

This will be a thread for specific rules questions.  I'll try to keep things clean as we proceed, but for things that came up in game I'll make an effort to add posts here to clarify previous rulings.  It will also serve as a record for how we interpret things in house, so if you catch me being inconsistent on these, say something and chances are I'll remember immediately.

I usually don't like to spend a lot of time looking things up during our playtime.  As players, you guys have been great at helping to get the rules straight and you're good about looking things up while waiting for your turn at the table.  In general, rather than bog down play with looking up rules I like to throw down a decision and look in the book later.  I'd like to think I'm good at generally ruling in favor of the players for things like this so I hope we can keep the game moving smoothly and not waste time deliberating obscure rules questions during our playtime.

[Guu]

Areas of Effect and Cover (Particularly Corners)
To get the real clarification on AoE abilities you need to look on pg. 271 of the PhB:

• Origin Square-  The origin square is the square where the effect is centered or started, so you do need to spread the effect out evenly from the origin square.
  
• Line of Effect- In order for a target to be affected by an area attack, there needs to be a line of effect from the origin square to the target.  Lines of effect are on PhB pg. 273, but a Line of Effect essentially means you need one imaginary line between you and the target that is not obstructed by a solid obstacle. 

Line of Effect was a relevant bit of info for tonight's game.  If Ben's dragonborn paladin stands behind a doorway and breathes, he has a line of effect into his breath square (which is on the other side of the doorway).  Because that power begins in the square inside the door, it hits everyone on the opposite side and to HELL with their cover.

Conversely, the situation where the cleric used an area power from one square behind the door means the monster that was several spaces around the corner was safe.  Every line from the area power's origin square needed to pass through the wall to hit the zombie on the opposite side, so there was no line of effect between the origin square and the undead baddy.

These are small points and made little difference on tonight's combats, but we'll need to keep them in mind for the future.  I didn't understand this bit of the PhB at all the first time I read it, but now that I've got some play time under my belt it makes perfect sense.  The rules make good intuitive sense if you think about it.  Anyone who feels they're getting a headache from this stuff can ask and I'll show you what the rules mean using minis and the combat mat next session.

[Guu]

Movement and Immobilization

• Push, Pull, Slide- Push must move the target away from you with each square of movement.  Pull must bring him closer.  Slide can go either way.  That's the only restriction, so you can move an enemy straight back away, diagonally, or to the side as long as it's getting farther from you.
• Forcing Movement- If you force movement on someone you dictate how they move, so you can indeed thunderwave a horde of enemies off a cliff.  If you hit them with your move power, they're toast.  They've nothing to save them.  (Except a single saving throw before going over.)
• Immobilization and Being Prone- Immobilization prevents you from leaving your current square, but you can take a move action to stand from prone.  This also works from grab, meaning if you're grabbed you're immobilized, but there's no reason you can't stand from prone while grabbed on your own turn.

These are also small matters that didn't even really come up at the table, but I looked for some clarification and I'm posting it here so we can be aware.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Nice job on the rules thread, Josh.

Also, after reading through some of the class abilities again, specifically those within our party, we were able to reestablish some misunderstandings within our own powers.

The things I found out since the last time we gamed were:

1. Temporary HP: They don't stack unless they're from different sources, much like in 3.5.  Thus, Bolstering Strike will not accumulate multiple temporary HP for any Paladin.

2. Healing Word: When used to boost a healing surge, it only adds 1d6 to the HP healed, until the cleric reaches 6th level.  Nothing else can add to this bonus, unless another effect, magical or otherwise, allows it to.

3. The Ranger's "Twin Strike" ability: Sorry AJ, but you've been using this ability wrong, and unfortunately, it's been to our advantage.  You DO NOT add your dexterity bonus to your damage rolls when you hit with this ability.  It's just a straight die roll.

4. This is something that I learned from playing in an LFR game yesterday.  When you score a critical hit, and deal maximum damage, ALL of the applicable dice that are being used in that attack are maximized, which include Hunter's Quarry, Sneak Attack, and Curse Damage.  If you look at page 278 in the PhB, this is what it says about Maximum Damage and Extra Damage, verbatim.

Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the max damage you can roll with your attack.  This is your critical damage.

Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit.  If this extra damage is a die roll, it's not automatically max damage; you add the result of the roll.

So according to what the rule says verbatim, all damage that is normally applied to a single attack is automatically maximized, with the exception of magical bonuses.  I understand that this isn't clear and concise about bonus damage from the Striker's marking ability, but if I'm interpreting the rule for what it plainly says, then it should apply to the damage caused by the marks.

I was also told that this is addressed in the FAQ Board on the Wizards site, which I will try my hardest to find later.  But for now, Josh, I'm curious as to how you'd like to apply this ruling to our game. 

Other than those things that I've personally seen, I haven't come across any other discrepancies with the way our characters are being used.  If anything else comes up, I'll be sure to address it here.

[Guu]

Ah, notes on the Ranger.  I was going to look that up at some point...seemed like AJ's damage output has been uber beefy.  Also, I was wondering why anyone would ever make a melee ranger if they can capitalize on such great damage output with the advantage of range.

Also, I'm shocked at the rules for critical damage.  I would have sworn that it said extra dice were simply rolled.  Oh well, live and learn.  We'll begin using the base rules for crit (max on all dice) immediately.

[Rurouni Benshin]

After going over the Cleric one more time, I realize now that I was wrong about the Wisdom Modifier being added to the Cleric's Healing Word ability.  The ability I forgot about was "Healing Lore", which allows the Cleric to add his/her Wisdom modifier to all abilities with the keyword "Healing".

My apologies for being wrong on the matter.  This may have actually helped in our last meeting, where I didn't need to spend so many healing surges between fights.  Moot point now, but now we'll know for future reference.

[Thomas callahan]

yeah i talked to steve sunday night and he showed me where i was getting the wisdom modifier to healing, and i was going to put it up, but i got side tracked and you beat me to it ben

and yays for rules, they either make life better or kill you outright

[Guu]

Skills and Skill Checks

• Stealth-  This skill is actually significantly different from 3rd ed. and no longer functions like some sort of groovy invisibility.  If a creature has an unblocked line of sight to you, you're automatically spotted.  Thus, the situation we had in the past where Rick wanted to thunderwave the hiding goblin wouldn't ever happen, Rick's character would have spotted the goblin as soon as he moved around the rock and the goblin lost concealment.
• Taking 20-  Apparently taking 20 is no longer a part of 4th ed (no mention on pg. 178-179 OR the index).  Maybe it's kind of pointless with the new rules, but I'll still allow people to take 20 when they're doing something mundane (usually this comes up for search checks).  3.5 conventions as to time spent still apply.
• Taking 10-  The rules for taking 10 are surprisingly fudgy.  In order to take ten, you need to be unrushed and dealing with a 'mundane' task.  What's mundane?  That's up to the GM, of course, but it's a phrase loaded with potential for argument (something I thought they were avoiding in 4th ed.).  For all intents and purposes, a mundane task in my game will be something that doesn't carry significant risk.  When push comes to shove, I'll probably define a mundane task as anythign that's boring...something that doesn't add to the story and isn't so important in the grand scheme of things.

All of these rules points are again minutiae but it helps to have a discussion so we can all learn the system.  I think we've got a really great group where everyone pitches in to help others and everyone has fun.  (Or seems to.  I really had fun during our last session.)

[Thomas callahan]

oh wow, that makes hiding near imposible. I wouldve never thought that they would make that skill abosolutly useless, cause we all know, everyone without armor loves to hide. And thank Josh for taking your time to put up stuff like this, it helps so no ones asking and searching in the middle of the game.

[jbkilroy]

I believe that hiding in someone's line-of-sight is possible, you just need some kind of special power to do it.

I think there's a power that allows a character to take any kind of action, including attacking and casting spells, but remain invisible until they leave the square they're in.  I don't have the book in front of me right now so I'm not sure of the details.  I'm sure there are other examples too, the real difference from 3.5 is that you need more than training in the skill and a good d20 roll to pull it off (like having rogue class levels)

Also, something has come up now that some of us have hit 3rd level and I need some clarification.  At 3rd level we get a new encounter power.  Now, does that mean in each encounter we can use either the 1st level or the 3rd level encounter power, or are you allowed to use both of them one time each?

The same question applies to daily powers.  Can you use one daily power no matter how many you have, or can you use each of your daily powers seperately once/day?  And how exactly does that work for me, a wizard?  Currently I know 3 1st level daily 'spells' but can only use one of them per day.  Would something similar apply once I reach the next level that gives me new daily powers?

[Rurouni Benshin]

Each encounter power is usable once per encounter.  So when we get our second encounter powers at 3rd level, that basically means we have two different encounter powers each usable once per encounter.

Daily powers work the same way.  When we get our second Daily Power, we can use each of our Daily Powers once per day (or per extended rest).

Rick, as a Wizard, you're allowed to add two Daily Power "spells" and two Utility spells to your spellbook each time you reach a level that allows it, effectively giving you two options of each Daily and Utility Power of each level.  You can still only use one Daily Power of any given level once per day, and you still need to choose which one you'll use at the end of each extended rest, but you at least have the choice of which you'd like.

So for example, let's say you chose Flaming Sphere and Freezing Cloud as your first level Daily Powers, and Fireball and Stinking Cloud as your 5th level Daily Powers.  One day, you may choose to have Flaming Sphere and Fireball as your Daily Powers, and then Freezing Cloud and Stinking Cloud another day.  In addition to that, if you take the Expanded Spellbook Feat, you can choose a third spell each time, allowing a third option at each level.

So if you like having options, that'd probably be a good feat to take come 4th level, if you haven't taken it already.

Hope that all made sense to you.

[Guu]

I believe that hiding in someone's line-of-sight is possible, you just need some kind of special power to do it.

Well, D&D is supposedly a game of simple rules with many exceptions to the rules...in any case the goblin wasn't awesome enough to hide in the manner he did.

Gotta remember I'm playing a new edition.

[Guu]

Actions and Attacks

• Opportunity Attacks-  You get an opportunity attack once per turn, not every round.  This means you can attack any enemy moving past you, but only once.  If they move past you more than once, you still only make a single attack.
• Immediate Actions- Only one immediate action can be taken in a round.  Thus, if a fighter marks multiple enemies he'll only get to attack one of them if they attempt to move away or attack another character.

Death and Healing

• Death Saves- You can fail three death saves between rest period (either short or extended), not every time you go down.  This makes those short rests after each combat all the more important!
• 20 on Death Save- You get to spend a healing surge when you get 20 or better on a death save, not just a natural 20.  This makes items and abilities that boost saving throws extra helpful.

[Guu]

Here are the rules for Stalker0's Obsidian Skill Challenge (ver. 1.2):

Link to EN World.

We're going to be using this one as our default skill challenge system.  I was going to homebrew some junk up, but Stalker0 has put a lot of thought into his system already.  Don't worry!  It's not a complete departure from traditional skill challenges...think of it rather as an expansion and clarification.  If you don't give a crap, don't bother reading any of it and we'll tackle it as we go at the table.

[Guu]

No other place to put this and I don't think it deserves its own thread.  Here's a nifty app you can download to make custom power cards:

Clicky here.

It's handy if you want to use powers that have just been released in new supplements, or if we ever get around to making CUSTOM POWERS.