Ard Boyz Nids?

[GossWeapon]

Just a kind of general list I was considering taking for the nearing ard boyz, I find it to seem WAAC for tyranids but is it win-able? I thought swarm tyranids were getting kind of old and managable, yet I looked in my box of stuff and found stuff for this list and played with it a little and put a new twist on nids. Just two cents on a deceptively "out of date" codex:

hq
Tyrant - wings, tl mind leaches, regen, old adversary, horror, wings, 2+ armor
Tyrant - wings, tl mind leaches, regen, old adversary, horror, wings, 2+ armor

elites
doom in a spore
3 zoanthropes in a spore
2 zoanthropes in a spore

troops
3 warriors w/ bonesword/lash, deathspitters, venom cannon in a spore w/ deathspitter
3 warriors w/ bonesword/lash, deathspitters, venom cannon in a spore w/ deathspitter
3 warriors w/ bonesword/lash, deathspitters, venom cannon in a spore w/ deathspitter
3 warriors w/ bonesword/lash, deathspitters, venom cannon in a spore w/ deathspitter
3 warriors w/ bonesword/lash, deathspitters, venom cannon in a spore w/ deathspitter

heavy support
mawloc
mawloc
mawloc

Only things on the board to start is the flyrants which are virtually immune to small arms, and dominate combat. then the havoc begins, and your troops drop pod onto objectives and each have 3 wounds and can hold their own.

[Ed]

i would have fun playing you

[Chase]

I'm sure Keith will have some feedback.  He seems to do pretty well with Tyranids.

[Benjamin]

Check the Tyranids list that made the Sweet Sixteen in Adepticon. Apparently, that list has taken the best advice from all over the Internet in terms of build, and then he played it properly. Dude's a cult hero.

[keithb]

1) Fantasy ard boyz is near, 40k is late summber/fall.

2) A reserve list without hive commander?  I don't get that one.  Why wouldn't you want +1 to reserve rolls, and it would even let you outflank one of your warriors instead of everything in a pod.

3) your list is illegal as Hive tyrants must pick 2 powers each (it looks like you only have one) AND they cannot take wings+armored shell, it is one or the other.   Also in this section, ALL hive tyrants should have paryoxym as one of their powers, it is one of the best in the game.

4) How does your army beat mass vehicles?  It seems like you are relying mainly on the 2 zoan units, who can each pop one, but will then likely get assaulted. 

5) I am not sure warrior spam is even good, nevermind WAAC

[Rurouni Benshin]

I think the problem with a Warrior spam is the low model count with only average Toughness.  Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, and Vindicators will make short work of them.  Same goes for the Spores as well.  You're also dropping 200+ points on only 4 models.  On average, that's more expensive than a single Terminator. 

3 Mawlocs would definitely wreak up havoc, but the problem with them is the risk of not having more than 1 show up on the same turn.  Granted with 3 it's probably unlikely to happen, but in my experiences with playing against Tyranid lists with numerous MC's that come up in reserve, if I'm able to focus on one MC at a time without having to worry about others immediately, more often than not, at least one MC will go down each turn.  Then once they're gone, the list loses a lot of its composure.  You definitely will need Hive Commander to make the Reserves more viable.

Zoanthropes are glass cannons, IMHO, albeit with decent survivability.  (So maybe they're more like "plexi-glass cannons" )  Hive Guard are pretty reliable too, with that ability to shoot things without needing LOS (or something to that effect) which also ignores Cover Saves unless you're in a very specific location.  Having a unit of those guys in lieu of the unit of 2 Zoanthropes might be better.

[GossWeapon]

1) Fantasy ard boyz is near, 40k is late summber/fall.

2) A reserve list without hive commander?  I don't get that one.  Why wouldn't you want +1 to reserve rolls, and it would even let you outflank one of your warriors instead of everything in a pod.

3) your list is illegal as Hive tyrants must pick 2 powers each (it looks like you only have one) AND they cannot take wings+armored shell, it is one or the other.   Also in this section, ALL hive tyrants should have paryoxym as one of their powers, it is one of the best in the game.

4) How does your army beat mass vehicles?  It seems like you are relying mainly on the 2 zoan units, who can each pop one, but will then likely get assaulted. 

5) I am not sure warrior spam is even good, nevermind WAAC

1) summer is only a few months which will come very fast.
2) +1 to the reserve rolls isn't that important to me and podding is more effective than outflanking.
3) I don't have any powers listed but im sure paroxism, and one other is what I would take, I thought I read "may take: " for armoured shell, but its not all that neccesary.
4) vehicle spam is always a huge problem for tyranids, but I have been seeing a shift from the heavy mech spam to low mech/DT rush with the new armies and the fact melta is abundant
5) warriors can hold an objective better when you pod them.  a swarm may not be bad, this is just a "meat and potatoes" idea, not so much the perfected best it will/should be.  I also didn't want the cookie cutter army of half term half terv troops, seems very predictable to me.

@ED - yes! this list would be entertaining against daemons.
@Ben - not much of what you said is helpful considering we are not talking about space marines here. tyranids die, can't really stop that. the fact that not every mawloc comes at once is tactically not a concern, there is a decent chance more than one can come up, and it leaves the X factor in my hands.  A glass cannon doesn't mater, the thropes blow up a tank, then die, they have done their job, why do I care if they survive once they take out the vehice? 

I can see a possible use of hive commander, yes, if the points are there, which if keith was correct about my flyrants then I do.  I am considering dropping the doom for another unit of thropes.  Why? because, as discussed, tyranids have difficulties with tanks and doom shocks the opponent into staying in those tanks.  Although doom is a monster when it works it also needs to work...

I appreciate the ideas and help since this is an enjoyable codex to look through and find good stuff.

[Rurouni Benshin]

The reason why I made that comparison was just to show you how much of a heavy point investment you're making into a unit.  I could've used any other effective 40ish point model to compare, but Terminators were the first choice that came to my mind.

Nothing against a Deep Striking list, but the biggest disadvantage here is that they can't assault the turn they come down, and your Warriors right now are armed only for CC (albeit very well, but just CC).  If you Outflank, you can still manage an assault in some circumstances.

Food for thought...  (btw, I got that straight jelly )

[keithb]

One thing, depending on your opponent's guns.  You can/should start all mawlocs on the table, then burrow on turn1.  then you are ensured to have all 3 popping up on turn 2 as there is no roll needed for them for the rest of the game at that point.


The only issue is, they are great for hitting units on the ground... you need to get guys out of their transports, which this list struggles to do.

Also, you are asking for 'ardboyz help, hence the nature of my advice.   Saying "I know I am not good at that" isn't really an option when we are talking about transport busting, you MUST be better at it.

[GossWeapon]

hence the dropping of doom becoming increasingly more attractive.

[keithb]

I would agree with that.

[Benjamin]

Saying "I know I am not good at that" isn't really an option when we are talking about transport busting, you MUST be better at it.

Absolutely 100% true in the current competitive meta. Awful shooting at AV 12 is generally far more efficient than an awesome assault.

I too have serious concerns about Warrior spam. Are they Fearless?

[Ed]

they have the hive mind thingy i dunno what it is called

[GossWeapon]

you miss the point.  I want it to not be a swarm based army, and they are essentially fearless, yes.  there are several advantages/disadvantages of warrior spam.  I just want an army that is different from the run of the mill, and warrior spam will not be something people expect from nids nowadays.

[Ed]

I expect it now you just posted this.