More Grey Knight crap. Help.

[Chase]

For the sake of my own sanity, I am not interested in discussion about the following questions.  I am looking for logical responses that answer the following:

There's so many RAW issues in the GK Codex that it's barely even playable as written. Dreadknights, for example, become Jump Infantry instead of Monstrous Creatures if they take a Personal Teleporter, meaning (among other things), that you can carry them in Stormravens.

Can they?  I know we covered this somewhere, but why or why not?  Don't they become jump infantry IN ADDITION to being a MC?

Dreadknights technically receive no benefits from having 2xNemesis Doomfists, as their benefits apply to "Dreadnoughts Only" (Being Dreadnought CCWs).

True or False?  Why or why not?

Inquisitor Coteaz is very unclear as to whether he causes Warbands to use FoC slots, and whether you're still required to take PAGK or TAGK to field a legal force.

I don't even know what this is asking.  Please help.

Falchions are extremely unclear as to whether they grant +1 or +2 Attacks.

We covered this.  Falchions give +1 attack, total.

It's unclear whether you can make a Warp Shunt move with a Personal Teleporter as a Scout Move, and whether such a move counts Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain (a la normal Jump Pack movement).

I'm pretty sure we already covered Shunt + Scout move.  It is legal.  What about the other part?

It's unclear how Psi-Shock weapons are actually resolved, as they cause perils only if they "hit" a psyker.

Clear this up, please.

There's our current issue with Drop Pods and Warp Quake.

??

5 or more Jokaero in a single unit cannot gain any "Inconceivable Customization," since the only roll possible is a 6

Just don't take a bunch??!

"Daemon" is technically only applicable to units in the Chaos Daemons codex, but not things like CSM Lesser Daemons, Greater Daemons, or Daemon Princes, as they don't have the (Daemon) unit type.

RAW or logic?  Why or why not?
 

It's unclear how the Vindicare's Turbo-Penetrator works against things like Living Metal (Monolith) or Energy Shields (Wave Serpents), due to the fact that the shot has a natural penetration of 4d6.

Again, I don't know anything about this.

A model in Terminator Armour can fire the Lance Strike option of an Orbital Strike Relay even on the move, as it's a Heavy Weapon.

True or false?  Why or why not?

[Bill]

This thread is going to light up quickly. I will send an e-mail lol.

[jesterofthedark]

Well as far as the shut move goes it would inccur any terrain tests that are normal required to be taken.  The move is not like a normal teleport, it is a 30 inch "jump" with no scatter.  But, if you tried to end the movement in terrain then the units "in" the terrain must make a dangerous terrain check just like jump infantry that landed there.

[Wes]

It's unclear how the Vindicare's Turbo-Penetrator works against things like Living Metal (Monolith) or Energy Shields (Wave Serpents), due to the fact that the shot has a natural penetration of 4d6.

So the Necrons Don't suck more, the codex says unaugmented strength and a single d6. 4d6 becomes 1d6 I would hope, although I expect an immediate reply saying that it somehow voids the no extra dice rule.

[Ed]

There's so many RAW issues in the GK Codex that it's barely even playable as written.

Is the person asking this playing the wrong game cause this problem allways happens every codex

[Moosifer]

Question 1:  yes they can be carried in storm ravens.  They lose their MC status when they choose to become jump infantry

Question 2: Dont know will need to see codex

Question 3:  He turns henchmen into troop units that do no count against your Force Org troop count.  HOWEVER, you still need to take 2 regular troop choices to be within your force org chart.  Think of them like Summoned Daemons in the CS:M codex

Question 4: You answered it in another thread.

Question 5:  You answered it and if you are jump infantry difficult terrain in fact does become dangerous terrain during your scout move.

Question 6/7/8:  Need to check codex

Question 9:  Of course they are daemons jackass

Question 10:  I will have to check the codex again, but I believe it is false.  The lance entry says it must have not moved, and it doesnt matter if you relentless or not, you still moved

[Benjamin]

My eleven cents answered to the best of my ability, without referencing anyone else's answers. Chase, I'm ditching this thread, so if you have any questions for me, shoot a PM. Hope it helps.

1) They would be Jump Infantry in addition to being Monstrous Creatures. Other examples in 40k include a Daemon Prince with Wings.

2) "A Nemesis doomfist follows the rules for Dreadnought close combat weapons." (p. 54, GK codex) There's no prohibition on them being Dreadnought exclusive, and there are many other weapons in the game that function under the heading of Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon. (p. 74, 40k rule book.)

3) The person is overthinking the issue. "Lord of Formosa: Inquisitorial Henchmen warbands are Troops choices in an army that includes Inquisitor Coteaz..." That's point-blank, couldn't be clearer. The second part of the rule, "... and are not limited by the number of Inquisitors in your army." (p. 86, GK codex) Normally, Henchmen warbands are limited by the number of Inquisitors. Coteaz removes this restriction, and a GK player can have up to 6 warbands, limited by the FoC.

4) That was easy.

5) When Jump Infantry (type) take off or land in difficult terrain, they must take dangerous terrain tests. I see nothing that suggests otherwise.

6) Looks like they're referencing the Orbital Strike Relay on page 58. It's a Large Blast. If the psyker is under the Large Blast template, the psyker suffers Perils of the Warp.

7) Yeah, I bet they are having problems. Notice how Grey Knights don't have drop pods? That's one reason. Solution, drop pods should drop outside the zone.

The quote about Jokaero is pure fail. Taking 5 Jokaero guarantees "The Works" (6+) result. That's why it says 6+. (p. 50, GK codex)

9) Technically, that's awful. Even dogs know Lesser Daemons and Greater Daemons are Daemons, and it's not just a clever name. The Daemons Codex, which creates the official Daemon subtype, is newer than the CSM codex. I do not believe until now the distinction mattered.

10) The Turbo-Penetrator is a pure, unmodified 4d6, so I know in the case of the Monolith, the Living Metal special rule would not apply.

11) Terminator armour (p 63, GK codex) grants the Relentless (p 76, 40k rulebook), which allows a model to move, fire Heavy weapons and assault all in the same turn. The Lance Strike option on the Orbital Strike Relay is a Heavy 1 weapon, so yes, Terminators can move, shoot a Lance Strike and assault.

[Ian Mulligan]

Ben, you are wrong on the first question. Daemon Princes with wings MOVE as Jump Infantry. They are not Jump Infantry. Example: Winged Lords have been ruled as being able to ride in rhinos since they only MOVE as jump infantry. There is a difference.


Daemon Princes, Lesser Daemons, and Summoned Greater Daemons do not have the Daemonic or Daemon rule. However, it does appear in their names. I'd be inclined to rule that they are based on that.

[the_trooper]

Summoned Daemons, Greater Summoned Daemons, Daemon Princes from the Chaos Space Marine codex are not "Daemons" per the Codex Chaos Daemons book.

It's the rules, not assumptions.

Greater Summoned Daemons do not get the following:
Eternal Warrior, Daemonic Rivalry.

Those two of the preceding rules are not applied to Greater Summoned Daemons or Summoned Daemons.   Daemon Princes from the codex Chaos Space Marines do not have Daemonic Rivalry.

EDIT:

Besides the actually cited rules, why should they not gain the disadvantage?  No need to tilt the table toward a more powerful codex while the CSM codex only suffers.  If it is applied to units without "Daemon" why stop there?  Why not apply it to all "daemonkin" and models fluff known as daemonic like defilers, possessed vehicles, etc.

Keep it with RAW, keep it simple.

[Ian Mulligan]

I honestly don't care at all how this turns out, but I do want to point out that including Daemon Princes, Lesser Daemons, and Greater Daemons would cause a whole lot less 'sperging day of the event.

[Librarian]

Ok here is how I read the answers to theses questions.

#1 RAW the personal teleporter would make the dreadknight into jump infantry but there is no question in my mind that when the errata comes out it will explain it as being either both monsterous creature and jump infantry or as a monsterous creature with a 12 inch move and the shunt power similar to a hive tyrant that buys wings.

#2 Dreadnaught close combat weapons are power weapons that double the weilders strenght. walkers armed with two or more of them gain one additional attack but any creature armed with two power weapons would normally gain one additional attack so I belive they do gain +1 attack for the two weapons.

#3 Coteaz makes henchman bands troop choices. its as simple as that. they are scoreing they take up slots and they meet the requirement for two troops. nothing in the book says they count as troops or that they act like troops or score like troops it just says they become troops just like a space marine commander on a bike makeing bike squads troops.

#4 Yep +1 attack for the falchions its a single weapon described as two weapons.

#5 yep looks like scouts+shunt is legal for now at least. Models Shunting ignore intervening terrain whail moveing but if they end there move in difficult terrain they are still jump infantry landing in dangerous terrain.

#6 psy shock weapons work like this...roll to hit, roll to wound, roll saves...and if by chance the target you hit was a psyker they suffer from perils of the warp if not..they don't its clear in the book only psykers are effected by the perils part of the weapon.

#7 I dont really know what there issues with drop pods are its very clear if you drop pod into the area they suffer deep strike mishap.

#8 yes it looks like they screw themselves if you take alot of them as you are very likely to get nothing.

#9 there used to be a list in the old demon hunters book that detailed what was and wasen't a demon the list looks alot like this "all models in Codex Demons, Lesser demons, greater demons, demon princes, demon hosts, and the eldar avatar."

#10 this one is tough the shot dosen't actualy get extra dice it just dose a flat 4d6 with no modifiers in alot of ways its more like haywire granades than a melta weapons bonus. i would let work its a very rare effect. Then again this is not totally the grey knight codexs fault the necron dex is ancient and in dire need of update.

#11 No a terminator may not fire the orbital relay after moveing regardless of being able to fire heavy weapons on the move. "The orbital strike relay is treated as a ranged weapon that can
be used provided that the bearer did not move in the preceding Movement phase"

[Grimwulfe]

I am in agreement with Librarian on most of these points.  However I view the following differently.

DreadKnights can not ride in a Storm Raven the teleporter makes them Jump Infantry but they are also a MC and can not ride in a vehicle no matter what gear you give them.  This is common sense Lets not abuse the RAW.

Daemons in the CSM codex are indeed daemons.  Like others have stated they have an old codex where these things did not need to be defined.  The title of Daemon is in there names for a reason!

Other then these 2 points I think Librarian has it right.

[jhobin]

I agree with Librarian and Troy's adendum assements.

There's no way they intended the dreadknight to be able to ride in a Storm Raven. Most things that are damons have that in there description somewhere i.e. Avatar. If not I think the INAT actually lists what is a daemon and what is not I can look later.

[the_trooper]

What about defilers and possessed vehicles?  How are they different than soulgrinders?

[jhobin]

From the INATFAQ:

DH.20Q.01 – Q: Exactly what models are currently
considered a „daemon‟?
A: Ignore the rule in the codex and instead consult the
following guidelines [rules change]:

-All models from the Chaos Daemons codex (excluding
Spawn created by „Boon of Mutation‟).
-Chaos Space Marine Daemon Princes, Possessed Chaos
Space Marines, vehicles with the Daemonic Possession
upgrade, Summoned Greater and Lesser Daemons.
-The Eldar Avatar.
-Imperial Armor Daemon Lords and any other model
with the „Daemon‟ or „Daemonic‟ special rule.