Megabattle: Table Restrictions - I want your ideas.

[General Leevous]

Dave you said it! This is the reason i don't post anymore/very rarely even go on the forums cuz i just get pissed about watching people complain! Everything has to be a big fiasco. I lost about half my army 1st turn because my 700 point plague tower went apoc with around 20 guys in it! Did i complain? No! I kept. Playing and made jokes about it cuz as sucky as it was, it was a good move and it was pretty funny. All im saying is putting restrictions on things makes the game dull.

[blantyr]

It is important for us to allow for the Apocalypse feel.  It is important for us to let player see and fight against models they've never seen before and will not see outside of our Megabattle.  It is also important for us to offer up the chance to play something close to the type of game someone is looking for.

Very good.

As people pay in, they will be asked how many points of superheavies / gargantuans they intend to field.  I might suggest that the top five Order and top five Disorder players might be sent, as Ralph  Kramden would say, "To the Moon, Alice, to the Moon!"  

Alternately, let's plot the amount of superheavy points on a curve.  I suspect there will be something like a bell curve with most people taking zero to two baneblades or equivalent.  If the pattern is anything like last year, by far most players will be under the zero to two baneblades area of the curve.  Then there will be a spike on the high end as a very few players will want to spend lots and lots more points on big models than everyone else.  

You might not want to finalize what the table restrictions ought to be until a lot of people have signed up and we know what that curve is going to look like.  Ideally, if the #11 player only wants 1200 points of superheavies, there might not need to be a lot of point limits.  If this is the case, the differences between tables might be fluffy...  the ice table slippery, the sewer table stinky, etc...

[Achillius]

Apocalypse is about pushing the game to extremes. We've spent a lot of time over the last few years looking at ways to reign this in, and I've got to say it causes way too much angst.

So this year I do not want to see any point or army restrictions on anyone. There are a few things that are beyond the scale, such as the no talking strategem, but that should be the extent of any limit.

I'm sorta curious to see how it pans out, we played a test game last year with no holds barred, and it was a lot of fun.

The restrictions should be: model is recognizable. The model is authorized by GW or on the board. And the model is painted, minimum 3 colours.

Other than that, it's Apocalypse, have at it! If that scares you don't sign up, there's only a limited number of spots somehow I think they'll be filled.

Cheers,
Alan

[Logan007]

I agree with Alan.

Also, since we're going to have one table with no superheavies/Gargantuan tables, can we have the unlimited table be truly unlimited? I'd like to see teammates being able to work off of each other's teleport homers, jump into each other's transports, enhance any of their allies' models with a psychic power, etc.

[blantyr]

I agree with Alan.

Also, since we're going to have one table with no superheavies/Gargantuan tables, can we have the unlimited table be truly unlimited? I'd like to see teammates being able to work off of each other's teleport homers, jump into each other's transports, enhance any of their allies' models with a psychic power, etc.

This might not be a bad idea.  There are at least 10 veteran Apocalypse players, native to Battlegrounds, who have played each other frequently, who know the Apocalypse game and each other well enough to push extremes.  You might consider letting the two table captains on the no holds barred table negotiate their own table rules...  then wash your hands with respect to that table.  If there are disagreements, let them settle it on their own.  So long as the four all superheavy players can find six others who would be pleased to share a table with them, let them go crazy.

But the other four tables?  There will be a lot of folk who don't do this anywhere near so often. There will be players very new to the environment.  I'd stick by your guns and keep it simple and manageable.  The veteran Apocalypse players might shake their heads and not be pleased by training wheels, but handling 60 players at 4000 points would be too much of a headache if you don't reign things in somewhat. 

[Achillius]

Not sure I made myself clear.  I think based on history we should not have any limits. Most of the problems last year with the moon came from measuring shenanigans. This year it's clear to all, it can't shoot at things standing at it's own feet. So, If someone drops an emperor in front of you gun for it's shadow and melta the bloody thing. We have proved that no holds Apoc work, if that's what people sign up for. So If people just turn up with their armies and play I feel confident it'll work out.

If however the idea of point restrictions is set in stone then I would suggest that the Apocalyptic table be the main event and therefore the large table. The smaller ones can be the 40k + tables.

The only reason the moon was chosen for that honor last year was because the bloody Titans wouldn't fit anywhere else.

Cheers,
Alan

[tyranid warlord]

I agree Allen I had no supers last year but was sided by them to trade fire with the other
side we had a ball and I still had a few nids left in the end.
Its the big game there should'nt be limits on points its called a team we play together.
 
Dave 

[Grand Master Steve]

This arguing is driving me crazy to the point I almost don't want to play. I find all these restrictions are against the spirit of the game. Your telling players who put sweat blood time and money into models that cannot otherwise be used in a normal game "sorry you want your big robot you have to play here on this table or not at all." Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's the interpretation I'm getting from players and chase.
        I said this once ill say it again. Super heaviest can be delt with using any army with no super heavies. I believe Ian made this point very clear in an earlier post. Also as Allen said we tested games with no restrictions and had no problems. I understand for story purposes why there are restrictions such as the sewers since its not big enough but not the other tables. I want to bring stuff I don't get to use but it seems to me people are getting upset. If that is the case I simply wont play. I want to play appocolyps which is a game that has no restrictions and shit happens. Its all part of playing a Mega battle.

[jesterofthedark]

My fear is that alot of people who consider themselves regulars are going to go down the same path as steve on this.  The squeaky wheel seems to get the gease but if caution is not taken the mega battle might turn into a unicycle.

It is what it is.

[the_trooper]

There is some guy that does Critical Mass, all 10-15 miles of it, on a unicycle.  If we could only be that awesome.

[Librarian]

I will agree that almost any army can deal with almost any superheavy without takeing supers themselves but almost no army can deal with them if they don't prepare there list knowing there going to be there.

back when it was one big table a few people could load up on anti titan weapons and when the big scary walkers appeared they could teleport in to deal with them but with seperate tables we could easily have a situation where someone like rob swaps tables last minute and causes major issues on both tables. suddenly someones titanhammer squad has no target and someone else is looking at there 3 melta guns and 3 las cannons knowing they have already lost.

plus so far the restrictions read emperor titans are only allowed on that one table and no giant walkers or flyers allowed in the city's sewer system.

[Chase]

I will agree that almost any army can deal with almost any superheavy without takeing supers themselves but almost no army can deal with them if they don't prepare there list knowing there going to be there.

back when it was one big table a few people could load up on anti titan weapons and when the big scary walkers appeared they could teleport in to deal with them but with seperate tables we could easily have a situation where someone like rob swaps tables last minute and causes major issues on both tables. suddenly someones titanhammer squad has no target and someone else is looking at there 3 melta guns and 3 las cannons knowing they have already lost.

plus so far the restrictions read emperor titans are only allowed on that one table and no giant walkers or flyers allowed in the city's sewer system.

This.  Especially the bold part.

[Achillius]

I just wish people would learn to spell Alan

[Chase]

This arguing is driving me crazy to the point I almost don't want to play. I find all these restrictions are against the spirit of the game.

Steve, there's no arguing.  I asked for opinions / ideas and people are giving them.

Your telling players who put sweat blood time and money into models that cannot otherwise be used in a normal game "sorry you want your big robot you have to play here on this table or not at all." Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's the interpretation I'm getting from players and chase.

See below.
 

I said this once ill say it again. Super heaviest can be delt with using any army with no super heavies. I believe Ian made this point very clear in an earlier post.

Yep.

Also as Allen said we tested games with no restrictions and had no problems. I understand for story purposes why there are restrictions such as the sewers since its not big enough but not the other tables.

Yeah, and in those test games how many Emperors were there?  If there were Emperors, how many people in the 5v5, 6v6, or whatever it was knew it was coming and were prepared for it?  Josh explains the problem with the giant Titans in an earlier post.  It has nothing to do with being *able* to handle one or not, it has to do with the, "surprise, an Emperor happened to deploy across from you and is literally going to kill everything you have.  Had no clue it was going to happen?  Too bad.  Have fun!"

I want to bring stuff I don't get to use but it seems to me people are getting upset. If that is the case I simply wont play.

I don't think anyone is upset with the proposed table restrictions.

I want to play appocolyps which is a game that has no restrictions and shit happens. Its all part of playing a Mega battle.

And if you play on ANY of the tables that will happen.  Currently, 30 of the 60 spots have ONE "restriction" which is "No Emperors".  No one even has an Emperor outside of Nick (unless the black one gets a makeover).  10 of the remaining 30 spots literally have no restriction.  10 of the remaining 20 have restrictions rooted in "fluff" and, in my opinion, create a game that 10 people would like to see in the first place.  The remaining 10 spots are totally up in the air, and MIGHT end up with restrictions based on predicted desires.  What is wrong with that?  Wouldn't I be doing a poor job if I didn't try and create play environments that my players want / might enjoy?

If Nick hadn't spent endless hours making a beautiful 5 foot tall Emperor last year, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

Restricting tables to "no models in excess of 2500 points can be taken" is essentially the same as saying, "Nick, you've got to play on the Moon."  What's the issue?


"Just show up with 4000 points of painted models and everything will be fine."




.

[Benjamin]

I just wish people would learn to spell Alan

Until you are the most prolific 3-point shooter in NBA history, it's spelled Allen. Beantown, go Celtics! 

Or if you need an on-topic suggestion, you can make an Emperor Titan and give no one an excuse for not knowing your name!