Megabattle: Table Restrictions - I want your ideas.

[The_Chef]

For real though, I say have one table where X gamers can play on with NO heavies.  This way the nubs without heavies can still feel loved.  And I do mean NO HEAVIES, nor fliers, titans, anything outside of a gw codex for a normal game.  And then the moon being the iron man hardcore all or nothing superheavy-only table. 

I would like to see the frigid temperature on the ice table, and the kicking sandstorms etc on the dessert table have an in-game effect.

I hate to say it, I agree with GossCannon.   

[GossWeapon]

The plain and simple best idea is to have the sewers be a beer and pretzels, no Apocalypse (or apoc if you like that term...) units/superheavies/gargantuans; the moon the superheavies only iron-man table; the planet table to be anything goes, and the side tables either anything goes, or 2500 points limit.

There are tons of unofficial models that go over 2500, the liklihood of them arising is unimportant, the store should be prepared for anything and everything so to avoid a problem before it comes up.

[blantyr]

There should be only 1 table where there is a restriction on point limits for super heavies.  That is the table that has no super heavies on it.

I personally agree with this too.  However, in light of what Bob said, I can understand the frustration of what others go through when they're left with no choice (or forced) to play against players who bring the big point models to the Megabattle.  But realistically speaking, unless half of the Megabattle attendants decide that they want to build their own Emperor Titan, I don't think it'd really be a problem.  Other than the Emperor Titan, are there any other Super Heavies/Gargantuan Creatures that are more than 2500?  To my knowledge, there isn't any, and the Banelord and Warlord Titan are the only ones I've seen at 2500 exactly.

So I guess what it comes down to is, is it likely that there could be a few more, if not possibly several more Emperor Titans this year?  If not, then I don't think the point restrictions are necessary.

I don't think it is the cost of the single model that is important, but the points total of superheavies.  It doesn't matter much if one is facing an Emperor or a bunch of warhounds, if the opposition has 4000 points of stuff throwing D templates from behind void shields and heavy armor, you have a problem unless your army is specifically designed to counter it.  I had the void shields of the Black Titan all the way down to zero last year on turn 2, but by turn 2 we didn't have anything left that could take advantage of the shields being down.  The Titan had enough D templates to have wiped out any threat strong enough to hurt it.  By turn 4, its shields were all up again.  If I were up against a wall of smaller titans, the result would have been much the same.

But it is definitely worth asking how many players want to bring how much.  The no holds barred people can continue to say how much fun it would be to crush people without big models, and how they should have the right to do so.  I can suggest that it would better to let people seek out a table that they would enjoy.  The big model people are not going to shift, they will insist on their right to crush folks who can't match up to their model collections.

I'd really like people to tell Derek and Chase what power level they are comfortable with, and would encourage Derek and Chase to keep in mind how many people asked for what when they make up table rules.  Listen to the players, and give them a chance to play the game in a way they enjoy playing.  That should be the objective.  Everyone should be having fun.

I half anticipate there might be one more player who joins the all big model club.  I half anticipate that the rest of the players, instead of fielding 1500 points or less of big models, fields 1750 points or less of big models.  Aside from a few players who take it all the way to the extreme, there will be quite a few people who will bring a bit more than they brought last year.  If the escalation is not stopped it will continue.

Talking to Chase after last year's battle, I don't think he is comfortable with continued escalation.  If so, I think he should stand firm.  One or two baneblades per army was about right.  But this would be his call.

[Ian Mulligan]

The no holds barred people can continue to say how much fun it would be to crush people without big models, and how they should have the right to do so.  I can suggest that it would better to let people seek out a table that they would enjoy.  The big model people are not going to shift, they will insist on their right to crush folks who can't match up to their model collections.

My god you are a cry baby. If you honestly feel like anyone with a decent super heavy is there just to roll some dice and watch an opponent look miserable, I have to wonder why you even leave your house for this game.

I was one of the leaders of the Disorder team until the whining got to much for me to bear. Knowing there was a number of enemy titans on the field, we obviously had to come up with ways to counter them. Do you know what we found to be the best in testing? 3 Chaos Terminators with combi-meltas. 105 points. Until I left the team, two squads of them were expected to handle the big stuff. We had some Vendettas, too. At no point did any of us feel overwhelmed. We thought about what the problems could be and devised solutions. Unfortunately for you, they don't involve sitting in your deployment zone shooting bright lances. Shooting void shields is stupid. Get in there and ignore them. Turbo boost a Wave Serpent filled with Fire Dragons. Get creative. Not every problem can be solved with long range shooting.

Outside of its exceptional firepower, I was worried about our team taking an Emperor. Why? Because I think it's too easy to kill.

[Librarian]

I am kinda against a table with no super heavies at all, if you want it to be lower key cap it at 500 points a model. if there is a no super heavies table would such a table still allow data sheet formations and non super heavy models such as most flyers or the more unusual rhino and land raider configurations?

[Chase]

I am kinda against a table with no super heavies at all, if you want it to be lower key cap it at 500 points a model. if there is a no super heavies table would such a table still allow data sheet formations and non super heavy models such as most flyers or the more unusual rhino and land raider configurations?

Yes. 

The only thing that wouldn't be allowed is super heavy or gargantuan creature.

I'm not sure what defines either of them (structure points?), but... yeah.

[General Leevous]

Wow first post in a LONG time! I totally agree with ian (in alot nicer of a way lol). Honestly when i heard that nick was bringing an emperor titan, literally my first thought was "wow i feel bad for nick cuz that things never gonna get to play" i had a specific strategy for this one model and it was NOT shoot it from afar. I've seen many games where a titan will win the match because of lack of strategy and i've seen a single squad of stormtroopers deep strike with meltaguns and pop the titan right then and there! Getting in the void shields is crucial. Once this is achieved, the titan is basically useless. Its just all about thinking on your toes and when one strategy dosnt work, have a backup!

As for table composition, i honestly don't feel like limits should be made (some for reasons steve said) but we had a playtest for the 2nd megabattle where we (chaos) took alot of big stuff and order didn't. We ended up losing due to strategic purposes, not because of matching firepower. Utilizing datasheets is a good way to counter a bunch of superheavies! But idk that's just me...

[Doomscape]

Yep, sounds to me like a job for ten five-man squads of stormtroopers with meltaguns. 

[General Leevous]

And before someone comments on my point limit statement, i forgot to mention that i am fully aware that that's not happening and i just said it to express my oppinion cuz i feel if you restrict alot of things, it kinda defeats the purpose of the game... idk but id feel waaaaaayyy more accomplished when something small takes out something big lol

[blantyr]

The no holds barred people can continue to say how much fun it would be to crush people without big models, and how they should have the right to do so.  I can suggest that it would better to let people seek out a table that they would enjoy.  The big model people are not going to shift, they will insist on their right to crush folks who can't match up to their model collections.

My god you are a cry baby. If you honestly feel like anyone with a decent super heavy is there just to roll some dice and watch an opponent look miserable, I have to wonder why you even leave your house for this game.

I was one of the leaders of the Disorder team until the whining got to much for me to bear. Knowing there was a number of enemy titans on the field, we obviously had to come up with ways to counter them. Do you know what we found to be the best in testing? 3 Chaos Terminators with combi-meltas. 105 points. Until I left the team, two squads of them were expected to handle the big stuff. We had some Vendettas, too. At no point did any of us feel overwhelmed. We thought about what the problems could be and devised solutions. Unfortunately for you, they don't involve sitting in your deployment zone shooting bright lances. Shooting void shields is stupid. Get in there and ignore them. Turbo boost a Wave Serpent filled with Fire Dragons. Get creative. Not every problem can be solved with long range shooting.

Outside of its exceptional firepower, I was worried about our team taking an Emperor. Why? Because I think it's too easy to kill.

Had a falcon full of dragons.  Had a seer council with witchblades.  Had strategic redeployment to push models forward.  Had fighters with bright lances flying inside the shields.  Had four plus rail guns mounted on skimmers.  Had lots of war walkers to take down void shields.

Last year's interpretation of the Titan shooting rules had head mounted D-Template weapons firing at the titan's toes, so none of the above did much good.  Part of my problem was planning for assault walkers and getting a stand and shoot walker.  Yes, I could have specialized more in titan killing, but doing so would have made my force less capable of fighting a more ordinary force.  The odds that the Black Emperor would have shifted to my table and my front did not seem so high that I planned for it.

If we play book shooting rules this year, if the maximum depression of guns is 45 degrees, codex forces against big titans will be a fun interesting fight.  If you think you will enjoy it, and I suspect you would, volunteer for the no hold barred table and bring a pure codex army.  If you think a few terminators can take on a big titan, show me.  I'm not trying to deny anyone the chance to play the game as they want to play it.  There were guys on the Order table with titan hammer squads talking the same way as you.  It's just too bad that they didn't know where the titans would be, that they wound up on the wrong table for the best shot at glory.

I haven't the least objection to players coming in with 4000 points of big models.  They just shouldn't be ducking real opposition.  They should just be willing to go up against opponents who relish the challenge and have the right plans and the right stuff.

I've just done it twice in a row, and would like a more typical experience this time around.

Assuming there is any such thing as a typical experience at a mega battle.

[Ian Mulligan]

If you think a few terminators can take on a big titan, show me.  

I don't have to show you. You can use statistics.

They just shouldn't be ducking real opposition. They should just be willing to go up against opponents who relish the challenge and have the right plans and the right stuff.

I don't know how much more blatant we could have been about what was going to happen on the moon. I'm sorry you didn't listen.

[Moosifer]

I just want to know Bob, where in the grand scheme of things you think you belong at this mega battle?  Do you want to play your super shooty army with fliers and a super heavy, but want no one to shoot back at you or assault you?  I am confused as to what you want out of this.

*SPERG*
AND FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST STOP TALKING ABOUT THE BLACK TITAN!!!!!!!!!!!  NICK HAD HIS EMPEROR TITAN POSSESSED AND DIDNT EVEN GET TO SHOT WITH HIS BUT YOU DONT SEE HIM BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT IT AND HOW IT RUINED HIS EXPERIENCE.  HE IS AN ADULT AND LIVED WITH WHAT HAPPENED!
*/SPERG*

If you seriously want to play on a table Bob, drop your saucer and flyers and play on the no super heavies table.  That way you can play your 4000 point army without having to worry about all the big bad people conspiring against you.

Chase, One table with no super heavies, everything else has whatever can be fielded.  We are already playing the apocolypse format toned down and it is a shame that we have to even consider limiting point costs because people choose not to do what is needed to be done to counter the thoughts of us Egotistical Elitest Powergamers.

[Chase]

Limiting 2 of 5 tables to 2500 point models is basically no restriction at all.  I am more or less positive, after being shown what an Emperor can do before last year's Megabattle, that it will ruin the "experience" for the average player on a 5v5 table unless there are specific tools deployed against it by savvy players with a plan.

The 2500 point limit per model is just a way for us to control where the Emperors go.

I think that Bob's analysis of the Order lists from last year is valuable.  Almost everyone had two Baneblade equivalents or less (roughly 1000 points or less) worth of super heavies.  I am very comfortable with this number.

Last year 10% of the players (4 of 40) took nothing but super heavies, 5% (2 of 40) took a 4000 point model.  This year, the two 4000 point models would have to play on the Moon.  I would hope the other two players taking nothing but super heavies play there also, or spread out.

It is important for us to allow for the Apocalypse feel.  It is important for us to let player see and fight against models they've never seen before and will not see outside of our Megabattle.  It is also important for us to offer up the chance to play something close to the type of game someone is looking for.

The cavern will probably not have more than 1.5 super heavies per player due to restrictions.  I could most definitely be wrong, however.

We will have a "no super heavies or gargantuan creature" table unless I feel that many people do not want that.  I expect (hope) we have a bunch of new faces this year.  Please keep in mind that not many players out there own a super heavy.  I also think there is some appeal to TONS of codex stuff slugging it out.  I just hope that enough stuff dies.  This table and the restrictions are a work in progress.

[Doomscape]

Hrm.  You know, having just "codex" orks on the table that hasn't got superheavies might be a riot (as an aside).

[GossWeapon]

You know what would be a fun awesome idea? Playing warhammer 40,000 instead of complaining about it, it is a game with little toy soldiers and giant robots that you roll dice for.