Really happy with gk codex

[Moosifer]

Rick your woe is me attitude is priceless.  Keep up the good work I love the whine...

As for Shunt please take a look at this good article that explains why it is legal.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/03/goatboy-grey-knights-and-shunt-punch.html

Overall yes it makes hth much harder but it definitly isnt the end all be all of woe.  With a balanced army and some good old know how any army can do well against it.  Pick your fights keep your range and assault only when neccessary. 

A big balencing factor is the lack of attacks the GK get.  They dont get the extra attack so they are swinging alot less.

Goatboy article is not "proof it works".  If the game has yet to start, you cannot use a once a game movement can you?

[Grimwulfe]

Didnt say it was proof.  Just pointing it out that it brings up some very good points as to why it can work.

FYI - as soon as I roll dice to see who goes first or what not the game has started so that argument is not valid.

[Moosifer]

Didnt say it was proof.  Just pointing it out that it brings up some very good points as to why it can work.

FYI - as soon as I roll dice to see who goes first or what not the game has started so that argument is not valid.

O Troy, the scout move happens before the game starts, the first turn of round one.

It is very interesting but if GW intends this to be the case, then I guess 40k has their next version of speed freaks!

[Benjamin]

Yellow card: "good article" from BoLS
Red Card: Totally wrong supposition in article's first paragraph re: Scout move

So, I stopped reading that pretty quick. It's hard enough for me to learn what's right, nevermind what's right from wrong.

[Grimwulfe]

Devils advocate is a great thing...

The argument is there and can be argued either way.  Personally I dont like it and think that it could be broken.  It will definitly need to be FAQ'ed or people will argue it till blue in the face.

The best thing we can do is make sure Chase and crew are well informed with all the facts and both sides of the argument so they can make an educated decision for tourny play.

[Ian Mulligan]

Goatboy cited the relevant rules. I see little room for argument. Until GW FAQ's it on power level, it works fine.

[Moosifer]

The BBB says scout moves occur before the first players first turn.  The entry in the GK Codex says that they may do this move during one movement phase during the game.  How can hey use his move if he game has yet to start?  The language and wording for this argument is pretty clear....

[Alley Livingston]

Been keeping up with this thread the whole time so I'm going to throw my 2 cents in.

The scout movement issue is kind of confusing in the sense of its fuzziness, I mean doesn't the BBB have higher authority in relation to ruling than the GK codex would? Kind of like Federal laws trumping state laws if that comparison makes sense.

I find it pretty over the top that all the basic troops for the GK are so cheap AND come with power weapons. What does an H2H army have to do now, bring terminators in to fight a unit of basic troops? That's ridiculous. I mean with the newer cheese out there that are purely H2H such as the spacewolves I feel like the new GK codex is trying to combat that a little, but at the same time they really overdid it. It really is going to test the stratagem of wolf players (and all H2H combat armies such as BA) here because instead of being able to go headlong into H2H more broken armies full of long fangs and such will be brought in to take care of the cheese-tastic troops. On top of that you have this unit of troops ready to assault you into oblivion and they have this complete cheese shunt? Seriously? I thought spacewolves were bad with the Twolves having fleet and being able to basically assault turn 1, but this shunt trumps that to the point where I want to know what drugs GW was on when they thought that would be a good idea in coordination with the ability to give scout. All in all, I think that although this is a completely new level of cheese being brought to the table, it somewhat makes sense in relation to the newer H2H oriented armies needing something to stop them (they went about doing this all wrong though). I believe a well built MEQ list could bring them down, but it'd take skill, luck, ability and the right build.

[Rhys]

[where I want to know what drugs GW was on when they thought that would be a good idea

i think that drug is called "boosted sales > game balance" or something like that

[Ed]

everyone cries when a new codex comes out only time i cried is when bugs got nerfed.
my largest army is daemons and i think i could take them. Lets the hunters be hunted.

[Ian Mulligan]

The BBB says scout moves occur before the first players first turn.  The entry in the GK Codex says that they may do this move during one movement phase during the game.  How can hey use his move if he game has yet to start?  The language and wording for this argument is pretty clear....

You can blow smoke on your scout move. Thats once per game, too. CHECK MATE.

[Benjamin]

You can blow smoke on your scout move. Thats once per game, too. CHECK MATE.

Scout rule is pretty clear in that a normal move must be used. Shunt as a one-per-game ability is not something I would consider a "normal" move. A unique move, a one-time move, yes. But not normal.

Smoke
"Once per game, after completing its move, a vehicle with smoke launcher can trigger them..."

Smoke isn't a one-time move. It's a one-time ability that can be done as a consequence, that is *after*, a move action.

"CHECK MATE"  

[Ian Mulligan]

Is turbo boosting normal movement?

[Grimwulfe]

In that same light here is the rule for the Teleporter.

Personal Teleporter - Units with personal teleporters are Jump Infantry. Once per game, the unit can elect to make a teleport shunt instead of moving. If making a teleport shunt the unit immediately makes a move of up to 30" in any direction.

Key words here are in bold.

This ability takes the place of normal movement so therefore can be used just like Smoke and Turbo Boosting.  The most relevant rule here is the Turbo Boosting which is a Speacial move which in turn counts as normal movement so therefore can be done in the scout move.

And lastley, Rick it is not clear cut or we wouldnt be having this discussion so please lets try and have an educated discussion siting actual text to back up our points. 

The entry in the GK Codex says that they may do this move during one movement phase during the game.

The Scout move is a movement phase in the game btw it is a pre-movement advance.

[jhobin]

With Shunting I'm with it's legal til GW says otherwise. The reason's behind it are pretty solid. Plus personally I think its a huge risk. It's similiar to the SW scouts there's a good chance they're going to kill something and then die a spectacular death.

Personally I don't think a 150 pts for a shunting unit is worth it. Don't forget you also have to take a GM who at a minimum is a 175pts to pull this off. But to make him effective he needs a transport the cheapest way to do that is a chimera which then have to take a 2nd HQ, Storm Raven, or Land Raider. The Raven starts at  205. So to take a GM and shunt you need to spend 380 pts on the HQ to make him effective and then a min of 150 on the shunting squad for a grand total of 530. That's for 8 model's before you've even touched the troops. For me that's not very cost effective.

Personally I see the major set backs of the GK's as lack of hth attacks, They have great HQ"s but all of them with the exception of crowe and the inq are in terminator armour. They don't have a lot of anti-tank capabilities. Even with rending psycannos's you still need to roll a 6 which you have a 17% (rounding up) of getting. They are also very pricey to bring. I was able to max out at 51 marines and 6 tanks at 1850 and that's with nothing other than troops and transports.

So basically roll with the punch's