Which is cheesier?

[Alley Livingston]

Alright so I am a spacewolves player as anyone who knows me knows considering I take great pride in that fact.

Everyone says how cheesy spacewolves are, but in reality they aren't nearly as bad as other armies. A few examples are the Tau who shoot across the board at you until you die, what fun is that having the other army shoot you every turn to the point where you finally get to them and don't have that great a chance at winning?

What about imperial guard who sit there with lines of tanks full of units with heavy weapons so they completely destroy the majority of your army before you even get to them and when you do they blow you up with heavy weapons?

Or what about chaos space marines with their completely retarded stat lines for Daemon princes? I  mean seriously people, lay off the spacewolves.

In comparison to everything else, especially other space marine armies, we aren't that bad or cheesy. Spacewolves are a great army with some great abilities for sure, but at the same time you seem to forget just how broken other armies are. So my question is, which do you honestly think is cheesier, the spacewolves, with not as many HQs as armies like regular space marines, no monstrous creatures like tyranids or chaos space marines, lacking a broken initiative with speed up the ass like eldar/dark eldar, lacking infinite amounts of powerful shooting weapons that allow you to shoot almost anywhere on the entire board, and having a few abilities like mark of the wolfen and wolf tooth necklaces that allow us to have a fighting chance in hell when getting into close combat with other armies that are much cheesier than us. I think the only cheesy unit in the entire spacewolves line up is the thunderwolf cavalry and maybe logan grimnar if you go with an entire army of terminators, but at the same time those units cost a huge amount of points. So all in all, do you really think spacewolves are THAT cheesy or are you just hating on them for no reason?

[Ugh]

In that case Ugh will paint models to look like cheese and then Ugh will have the cheesiest army in the game. UGH WINS AGAIN!!!!

[Ian Mulligan]

Space Wolves are so good that people on the tournament circuit use that codex for their chaos marines.

Thunderwolf cavalry backed by 3 full squads of Long Fangs with Logan Grimnar and then other silly shit is pretty rough, dude. Not many armies can pump out that kind of raw power.

[Benjamin]

A Daemon Prince with Strength 5, Toughness 5, 4 wounds and 3+/5+ saves is not a "completely retarded" statline for an HQ choice. That's par for the course.

[Alley Livingston]

500 points for the cavalry, 275 for logan, and 435 for the 3 long fang squads, more if you choose 4 lascannons instead of the 2 and 2 missile launcher lascannon combo. For aroudn 1250 points there's nothing any army can do to combat 2 units of heavy support, 1 fast movement unit and 1 HQ? That is hard to believe. Target the cavalry with heavy support, Logan grimnar can be taken down by a unit of terminators or monstrous creature, or even heavy support if you want to go there. The long fangs are the equivalent of a normal grey hunter in close combat so it's easy to just get into hand to hand with them and make them pop. The spacewolves have lots of abilities but if you think about what each unit does they are easy to destroy. Tau and guard are the bane of a spacewolf player's existence, especially when foot slogging.

[Ian Mulligan]

You're neglecting the other 600 points of space marines you have to deal with.

Why are you foot slogging? Seems silly.

[Alley Livingston]

You're neglecting the other 600 points of space marines you have to deal with.

Why are you foot slogging? Seems silly.

The 600 points of grey hunters that would be 3 units of 10 guys each, or if you want to go terminators maybe 2 units if you arm them correctly. All you can manage. Foot slogging because with what you already added it would be stupid to take transports. Maybe 2 units of grey hunters with a crusader. Again, all manageable. And Benjamin, a Daemon prince is pretty stacked. 7 ws, 5 bs 5 init. on top of everything else you listed? I'm pretty not happy to go against that. Only chance is heavy support with long fangs or the rune priest.

[jhobin]

Just wait until the GreyKnights pop in, the Space Puppies will be losing there title of cheesiest.

TCav are nice but every marine armed with a power weapon is nicer.

[Alley Livingston]

Just wait until the GreyKnights pop in, the Space Puppies will be losing there title of cheesiest.

TCav are nice but every marine armed with a power weapon is nicer.

Basically, yeah. Tcav is great, but honestly, they're targeted immediately and aren't that difficult to completely obliterate, especially with power weapons and heavy weapons.

[Godlyspear]

Did you really just say that tau are cheesier than space wolves?  You don't get to play space wolves anymore.

[Alley Livingston]

Did you really just say that tau are cheesier than space wolves?  You don't get to play space wolves anymore.

I said no where in anything I said that Tau were cheesier than spacewolves. I said Tau were cheesy, and went on to elaborate how 3 or 4 different armies were also cheesy and gave examples.

 I personally think that every army has cheesy aspects to them, and any army can beat any other army if you choose your list correctly. Spacewolves aren't vastly overpowered no matter what everyone else thinks.

Unless you pick up a spacewolves codex and use the army you can't really say that it's cheesy. Just because people get beat by them doesn't mean they are overpowered, it means that they haven't come up with a list to beat them yet. I can think of ways to beat spacewolves with any army, it's really not that hard. It's 100% possible to make a complete cheese list from spacewolves, an example being taking terminators as your troop choices and logan grimnar along with 3 other named characters like Njal stormcaller and Ragnar blackmane then taking several long fangs units and a thunderwolf cavalry. There are ways to make the army broken, but I can't name a spacewolves player who does that, because it's a douche thing to do. I know as a wolves player I don't use named characters because I think they're overpowered. the only time I'd use one would be in the megabattle. I use 1 unit of fangs, 1 of terminators, several units of grey hunters a wolf lord and rune priest. That's not cheese. All in all, yes, spacewolves CAN be completely broken if you're a dick and take all the combinations of units that make it overpowered, but the same can be said for every army can it not?

[Ed]

I'm sorry you don't understand how space wolf work but they are a shoting army
I WOULD NEVER MIX weapons in a long fang squad it would be all rockets or all muti metas in a drop pod with logan.
space wolf are one of the strongest shoting army out there other then guard and they can out shot tau anyday played right.
on the topic of the thunder wolfs they are a tar pit so you waste your time shoting them so you can have your way with then with your rockets and crap amount of combi weapons.

[Alley Livingston]

I'm sorry you don't understand how space wolf work but they are a shoting army
I WOULD NEVER MIX weapons in a long fang squad it would be all rockets or all muti metas in a drop pod with logan.
space wolf are one of the strongest shoting army out there other then guard and they can out shot tau anyday played right.
on the topic of the thunder wolfs they are a tar pit so you waste your time shoting them so you can have your way with then with your rockets and crap amount of combi weapons.

They really aren't the strongest shooting army out there. The long fangs are able to be split weapons because they can split fire. An example is 2 lascannons and 2 missile launchers that way you can blow up tanks and dreads with the lascannons while the frag grenades work through units of infantry. Why the hell would you put Logan Grimnar, an HQ purely for MELEE, in a DROP POD with a unit of long range SHOOTERS? The long fangs start on the table so that they can defend your units that need to get into melee, like units of storm shield termi armor power weapon wolf guard, who are the ones that go with logan grimnar, not long fangs. Thunderwolf cavalry is meant to rush the opponent in close combat (yay fleet) and take out entire units of things by themselves, that would be why they are fast attack. Spacewolves, unless you take multiple dreadnoughts, multiple units of long fangs, and HQs like Njal stormcaller and rune priests, are meant to be a close combat army, hence the abilities mark of the wulfen, wolf tooth necklaces, wolf standards, counter-attack, headstrong, etc, and would not be able to out shoot a Tau army unless those circumstances apply, which 9.9 times out of 10 they do not.  But of course not being a wolf player you probably wouldn't understand that now would you. Again addressing Thunderwolf cavalries, they are meant for destroying units upon units of troops, but are also recognized by the player themself as a unit that will be targeted immediately, it's not our fault as spacewolf players that we take advantage of the openings you leave in your army by targeting the thunderwolf cavalry which you KNOW will be your own downfall. Tie them up in close combat with puny units like basic troops and take out our long range guys then go back to firing your heavy weapons on the thunderwolves. I mean really, it's not impossible to take them down.

[Ed]

YES I DO PLAY SPACE WOLFS
it sounds like you play beer and peanuts games.
the world meta for 40k is shoting not melee

[Alley Livingston]

YES I DO PLAY SPACE WOLFS
it sounds like you play beer and peanuts games.
the world meta for 40k is shoting not melee

That doesn't make sense the way you typed it.

Also, excuse the tirade I've seemingly gone on, but I'm sick of taking shit from everyone for the army I play and what I do with it. I don't run a cheesey spacewolves list but I still take **** from every person I meet and tell what army I run because they're spacewolves. I chose my army based on how it looked, not because I knew that everyone thought they were a complete and utter cheesefest. I avoid using named characters just to try and avoid taking anymore shit for the army I run. On top of that I get shit for painting my wolves a different color than they are supposed to be according to GW. I mean really, we're supposed to assemble and paint our armies as we like, not as what's set by GW. I don't care if I have pinkish/purple accents on my wolves, or a black unit that is supposedly chaos wolves, or that I have a unit of dark purple wolves, it's my army, I don't run a cheesy list, and I paint them in an enjoyable fashion. Spacewolves can be beat, I know because I've done it before, with other spacewolves, and with orks, which means you can do it too.

Don't get me wrong, I know everyone takes **** at some point for what army they run, but as a novice player still trying to get into the game it's really discouraging to get that everytime you bring out your army or talk about it.

I'm ready for the "u mad br0?", the jeez you're pmsing, and all other fashions of insults/playful jabs because of the tirade I just went on again, but it's how I feel, so yeah. I don't think spacewolves are that cheestastic unless you intentionally put a list together that way, which only douchebags do, and they can be beaten.