Author Topic: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread  (Read 59497 times)

Chase

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2010, 09:58:47 PM »
So as the date is June 4th, are we going to have a beach landing and airborne assault table?

The data is close enough to provide inspiration ...


Thoughts?

Cheers,
Alan

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Opforce3

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2010, 10:48:23 PM »
So as the date is June 4th, are we going to have a beach landing and airborne assault table?

The data is close enough to provide inspiration ...


Thoughts?

Cheers,
Alan

The tables are on Derek and I couldn't be happier about that.

So the tables are on me.


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Rurouni Benshin

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2010, 02:26:21 AM »
Lol @ Paul :D
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jesterofthedark

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2010, 01:14:11 PM »
ok paul I want to see a catachan table, everything is forest.  HAHAHAHAHA take that gun line armies of the imperium.

Achillius

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2010, 03:48:17 PM »
ok paul I want to see a catachan table, everything is forest.  HAHAHAHAHA take that gun line armies of the imperium.

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2010, 12:45:11 PM »
hey so can we post models we think would be balanced and fun if we just used our imagination?

Not in this thread, please.

Let's keep this thread's post count as low as possible.
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blantyr

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2010, 11:52:51 AM »
ok paul I want to see a catachan table, everything is forest.  HAHAHAHAHA take that gun line armies of the imperium.

Agent orange man, Agent Orange...

He has a point.  There is a 'remove all vegetation' stratagem that I've never seen used, but if you posted in advance that there would be a forest table...

blantyr

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Revisiting Some Of Last Year's Controversies
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2010, 12:51:56 PM »
Shortly after last year's battle, there were some calls that were controversial.  It was deemed prudent to let things cool off.  I made some proposals to Chase that were generally well received in the aftermath of last year's battle.  I don't want them slipping through cracks.  Thus, I'll post them up here.

There are controversial stratagems that one side or the other might like banned.  I'm not going to open up these stratagem by stratagem debates, but I would like to reduce the amount of troublesome stratagems in play.  Thus, instead of allowing a given stratagem to be used once per side per table, I'd propose to play it book and go with once per side.  If we have seven tables, this would be the difference between 14 flank marches from stratagem choices and 2 flank marches.

Big titans often come with minimum range restrictions on shoulder and head mounted weapons.  Due to ranges being measured in 3 dimensions instead of 2 in the new 40K base rules, these range minimums effectively went away in last year's battle.  However, the new 40K base rules also define line of sight as being taken from the pivot point of the weapon, not from the nozzle.  Also, weapons cannot be elevated or depressed more than 45 degrees off horizontal.  If the new codex is used properly and fully, something similar to the minimum range circle will occur in all titans.  None of them will be able to target units hanging around near their toes.  Again, I'd like to see it played by book.  Titan and d-template advantage meant a lot last year, and I don't want the big walkers to be unduly unbalancing.

The Disruptor Beacon is one of four "Front Line Assets" -- the others being Null Field Generator, Supreme Headquarters and Shield Generator -- that are represented by a marker placed in the owner's deployment area.  There is a maximum size of four inches for these markers.  Last year there was a special rule that prevented one from placing Disruptor Beacons immediately near cover.  This was done in part because there was no minimum size for the markers, thus one could in principle put a tiny marker somewhere implausible.  As we now have a good deal of time to make markers, I'd propose that we have a minimum size for markers rather than a rule to prevent placement near cover.  I'd suggest the monstrous creature base size as a good minimum marker size.

Many have noted an escalation in use of big models.  Some have voiced opinions that such escalation should be stopped.  Last year we had a good healthy number of people with no super heavy or gargantuan models, a good healthy number of people with one or two bane blades or their point equivalents, and we had four people who spent every single point on big models.

I can see how each style of play can be fun.  Having twice in a row been deployed opposite heavy walkers I wasn't prepared to fight, I'll suggest being surprised by a mismatch isn't always fun.  We might want to discourage mismatches.  I'd like to see tables available for all three styles of play.  If there are fluff reasons as well as game balance reasons for different table rules, so much the better.  I fit in the middle category, with one 'counts as' Eldar Scorpion.  I'd like to play with like minded opponents.  I don't begrudge the all heavy players their opportunity to deploy the big models, but might they pick on people their own size?

That's about it for the moment.  I do sympathize with Chase's desire to minimize custom rules and units.

Chase

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Re: Revisiting Some Of Last Year's Controversies
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2010, 01:35:03 PM »
Shortly after last year's battle, there were some calls that were controversial.  It was deemed prudent to let things cool off.  I made some proposals to Chase that were generally well received in the aftermath of last year's battle.  I don't want them slipping through cracks.  Thus, I'll post them up here.

I'm glad you did, Bob.  I definitely forgot about some of these.

Quote
There are controversial stratagems that one side or the other might like banned.  I'm not going to open up these stratagem by stratagem debates, but I would like to reduce the amount of troublesome stratagems in play.  Thus, instead of allowing a given stratagem to be used once per side per table, I'd propose to play it book and go with once per side.  If we have seven tables, this would be the difference between 14 flank marches from stratagem choices and 2 flank marches.

I would like to see this also and have considered it myself, to myself, a bit lately.  The only real issue I can see coming up is that there might not be enough stratagems to go around.  I do not think ti would be very difficult to create a "bank" of stratagems that can be taken by each side.  The bank might include 1 "Flank March", 1 Disruptor Beacon, 2 Strategic Redeployment, etc.

Quote
Big titans often come with minimum range restrictions on shoulder and head mounted weapons.  Due to ranges being measured in 3 dimensions instead of 2 in the new 40K base rules, these range minimums effectively went away in last year's battle.  However, the new 40K base rules also define line of sight as being taken from the pivot point of the weapon, not from the nozzle.  Also, weapons cannot be elevated or depressed more than 45 degrees off horizontal.  If the new codex is used properly and fully, something similar to the minimum range circle will occur in all titans.  None of them will be able to target units hanging around near their toes.  Again, I'd like to see it played by book.  Titan and d-template advantage meant a lot last year, and I don't want the big walkers to be unduly unbalancing.

What went on with this last year was sort of dumb.  Minimum range on Titans will be handled differently this year.  If what you've proposed seems "too complicated" I would have no problem measuring range from the models "feet".  Anyways, this is something that the community needs to discuss.

Quote
The Disruptor Beacon is one of four "Front Line Assets" -- the others being Null Field Generator, Supreme Headquarters and Shield Generator -- that are represented by a marker placed in the owner's deployment area.  There is a maximum size of four inches for these markers.  Last year there was a special rule that prevented one from placing Disruptor Beacons immediately near cover.  This was done in part because there was no minimum size for the markers, thus one could in principle put a tiny marker somewhere implausible.  As we now have a good deal of time to make markers, I'd propose that we have a minimum size for markers rather than a rule to prevent placement near cover.  I'd suggest the monstrous creature base size as a good minimum marker size.

This seems fine, fair, and the requirement will be included when I get around to typing up the "tweaks" to certain stratagems.

Quote
Many have noted an escalation in use of big models.  Some have voiced opinions that such escalation should be stopped.  Last year we had a good healthy number of people with no super heavy or gargantuan models, a good healthy number of people with one or two bane blades or their point equivalents, and we had four people who spent every single point on big models.

I can see how each style of play can be fun.  Having twice in a row been deployed opposite heavy walkers I wasn't prepared to fight, I'll suggest being surprised by a mismatch isn't always fun.  We might want to discourage mismatches.  I'd like to see tables available for all three styles of play.  If there are fluff reasons as well as game balance reasons for different table rules, so much the better.  I fit in the middle category, with one 'counts as' Eldar Scorpion.  I'd like to play with like minded opponents.  I don't begrudge the all heavy players their opportunity to deploy the big models, but might they pick on people their own size?

Tables will be available for at least the 3 styles of play you mention, Bob.  That's a promise.

Quote
That's about it for the moment.  I do sympathize with Chase's desire to minimize custom rules and units.

Yeah!
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Serring

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2010, 09:14:21 PM »
Shortly after last year's battle, there were some calls that were controversial.  It was deemed prudent to let things cool off.  I made some proposals to Chase that were generally well received in the aftermath of last year's battle.  I don't want them slipping through cracks.  Thus, I'll post them up here.

There are controversial stratagems that one side or the other might like banned.  I'm not going to open up these stratagem by stratagem debates, but I would like to reduce the amount of troublesome stratagems in play.  Thus, instead of allowing a given stratagem to be used once per side per table, I'd propose to play it book and go with once per side.  If we have seven tables, this would be the difference between 14 flank marches from stratagem choices and 2 flank marches.

Big titans often come with minimum range restrictions on shoulder and head mounted weapons.  Due to ranges being measured in 3 dimensions instead of 2 in the new 40K base rules, these range minimums effectively went away in last year's battle.  However, the new 40K base rules also define line of sight as being taken from the pivot point of the weapon, not from the nozzle.  Also, weapons cannot be elevated or depressed more than 45 degrees off horizontal.  If the new codex is used properly and fully, something similar to the minimum range circle will occur in all titans.  None of them will be able to target units hanging around near their toes.  Again, I'd like to see it played by book.  Titan and d-template advantage meant a lot last year, and I don't want the big walkers to be unduly unbalancing.

The Disruptor Beacon is one of four "Front Line Assets" -- the others being Null Field Generator, Supreme Headquarters and Shield Generator -- that are represented by a marker placed in the owner's deployment area.  There is a maximum size of four inches for these markers.  Last year there was a special rule that prevented one from placing Disruptor Beacons immediately near cover.  This was done in part because there was no minimum size for the markers, thus one could in principle put a tiny marker somewhere implausible.  As we now have a good deal of time to make markers, I'd propose that we have a minimum size for markers rather than a rule to prevent placement near cover.  I'd suggest the monstrous creature base size as a good minimum marker size.

Many have noted an escalation in use of big models.  Some have voiced opinions that such escalation should be stopped.  Last year we had a good healthy number of people with no super heavy or gargantuan models, a good healthy number of people with one or two bane blades or their point equivalents, and we had four people who spent every single point on big models.

I can see how each style of play can be fun.  Having twice in a row been deployed opposite heavy walkers I wasn't prepared to fight, I'll suggest being surprised by a mismatch isn't always fun.  We might want to discourage mismatches.  I'd like to see tables available for all three styles of play.  If there are fluff reasons as well as game balance reasons for different table rules, so much the better.  I fit in the middle category, with one 'counts as' Eldar Scorpion.  I'd like to play with like minded opponents.  I don't begrudge the all heavy players their opportunity to deploy the big models, but might they pick on people their own size?

That's about it for the moment.  I do sympathize with Chase's desire to minimize custom rules and units.
I agree very much with this. As far as the min range for titans it would probably be best to measure from the feet like Chase said is a possibility otherwise people might customize titans to lean over so they can shoot closer to their feet.

blantyr

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2010, 10:21:23 AM »
I agree very much with this. As far as the min range for titans it would probably be best to measure from the feet like Chase said is a possibility otherwise people might customize titans to lean over so they can shoot closer to their feet.

I'd be content with measuring titan's range from their feet.

I agree with Chase that we need to allow some (most) Strategic Assets to be taken more than once in order to provide reasonable choices for everyone.  Holding controversial ones to one per side, though, seems to me to be an act of self preservation.

jfoodmaster

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2010, 05:58:42 PM »
I was under the impression that this thread was all about deciding if a custom model/questionable paint job/questionable scratch build was going to be allowed to enter the megabattle.

It seems to have evolved into questions of made up codices and fan made rules from the internet.

Hmm.

jesterofthedark

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2010, 06:10:27 PM »
you are right jfoodmaster.

I am still waiting to hear if we should proceed with discussions on the primarchs, I know grim was interested and posted some info about what he wanted to see.  But, I heard there was some reservations from a few people and am waiting to hear the final proclaimation as to whether we should continue the discussion.

blantyr

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« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2010, 07:38:33 PM »
I was under the impression that this thread was all about deciding if a custom model/questionable paint job/questionable scratch build was going to be allowed to enter the megabattle.

It seems to have evolved into questions of made up codices and fan made rules from the internet.

Hmm.

I think Chase was relatively clear on the other thread.

I think it's important to note that the presence of the other thread does not open up the entire internet as a resource for datasheets.  We want to be extremely strict about everything we allow, especially in terms of datasheets.  It is strongly recommended that each player use datasheets presented in the Apoc book, Apoc Reload, or Imperial Armour books.  In extremely rare cases, like Mike Salzmans Aqua Marine Titans, custom datasheets might be required and permitted.  Way more than half the reason why this has been allowed in the past is because his models are badass.

There is a very fine line between allowing things that seem appropriate and "cool" and allowing things that make the game seem silly or stupid.  Help me help everyone and please try to respect that.

I'd just as soon assume that a model has to be declared not just acceptable, but badass, before we start talking about inventing rules or pulling fan stuff from the net.  The sheer size of the event presents enough of a challenge without adding extra unnecessary complications.

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Re: [Megabattle] Custom Model / Datasheet / Idea Approval Thread
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2010, 07:41:17 PM »
Troy, where did you get Perturbo?  That's not from gw.