why does this list lose so much?

[skavengear]

in the topic:

hq
2x terminator librarian with storm shield (wings gives jump move, sword gives s10)

elite
terminator squad
terminator priest
3x assault priests with power weapon

troops
tac squad in rhino (plasma cannon meltagun, combi flamer and powerfirst)
3x assault squad (thunderhammer, infernus pistol, hand flamer)

heavy support
stormraven (assault cannon and typhoon missle launcher)
dreadnought (heavy flamer, multi-melta)

so why do i keep consistently losing? it used to have bikers instead of the third assault squad and win, but then the bikers began to suck. so any advice that could convince me to stay with blood angels?

[Ian Mulligan]

Keep playing it. Ask your opponents what mistakes you may have made against them. Listen. Learn.

[Moosifer]

in the topic:

hq
2x terminator librarian with storm shield (wings gives jump move, sword gives s10)

elite
terminator squad
terminator priest
3x assault priests with power weapon

troops
tac squad in rhino (plasma cannon meltagun, combi flamer and powerfirst)
3x assault squad (thunderhammer, infernus pistol, hand flamer)

heavy support
stormraven (assault cannon and typhoon missle launcher)
dreadnought (heavy flamer, multi-melta)

so why do i keep consistently losing? it used to have bikers instead of the third assault squad and win, but then the bikers began to suck. so any advice that could convince me to stay with blood angels?

From a quick glance at this list, you are paying a ton of points for whizbangs and one hit wonders.

-  You have FOUR sang priests in your army, and of which you are paying almost 100 points a peice for each.  I would suggest dropping the power weapons on all of them, and switching out the termy one for a furioso dread.   You still can cover your assault squads with priests, you should not really be worrying about giving your termies FNP

- 2x libbies for HQ, seems like a huge honking waste of points.  Drop one 1 libby and replace with a reclusiarch in termy armor and stick him in stormraven with termies.

- Give your assault Sgts Power weapons and melta bombs.  You still can take on Armor while benefiting from the furious assault granted by the priest.  Also infernus pistols are nice but way too pricey for the extra melee attack.

- Tact squad in rhino, choose what they will do.  I am guessing you combat squad them, so maybe you should get yourself a las cannon to deal with armor (BA's weakness) and give sgt a power weapon and melta bombs.

[the_trooper]

What kind of terminators?   Assault or manly?

Ian and Rick both make excellent points.   Assault terminators need little help to survive.  Also,   thunder hammers belong on terminators, not line troops.   Think about what makes ba better than vanilla sm and consider what makes vanilla sm so strong.

Sm shooty with chaos like melee.

[Moosifer]

What kind of terminators?   Assault or manly?

Ian and Rick both make excellent points.   Assault terminators need little help to survive.  Also,   thunder hammers belong on terminators, not line troops.   Think about what makes ba better than vanilla sm and consider what makes vanilla sm so strong.

Sm shooty with chaos like melee.

the terminators are manlys with a cyclone and 3 chainfists. the only difference is we get furious assault and fnp. which fnp seems to never really help, since anything a vanilla would worry about in combat or at range cancels out the fnp

Ok this is something I can work with.  You have 5 manly termies, why are they in a stormraven like namby pamby assault termies.  Stick them in a fire support role, while removing the jump packs on one of your assault squad, giving them assault weapons, a sang priest with no pack and go to town on someone.

FNP is pretty fucking awesome, but you are basing your army around the concept of FNP.  You want to be able to functionally dismantle an adversary without having FNP, using FNP to supplement your forces.

What makes Vanilla Marines pretty sweet is their point cost, the ability to take vulcan vastly improving your ability to take stuff out with melta's, long range firepower, and their armor save/ballistic skill.

The thing that makes BA awesome is not that they can get FNP, but their ability to take units that are CC beasts with the added incentive of being able to score objectives.  BA are almost as good as CSM (who get Bolter/BP/CCW) for close combat, they are just a bit lacking in the range category.

I will be around tonight working on my guard list if you have any more questions

[Grimwulfe]

I think your idea of Nids is warped.  Nids have some very viable options that fall in line with BA and army choices that I very diverse depending what you want to do.  Any army you play are going to have these choices.  You need to open your mind and really try to focus on the best uses for what you are fielding and the best ways to utilize there strengths. 

Rick is correct in that 4 priests are not needed.  1 or 2 are sufficient to cover your entire army.  Which intern will open up more options for you.  I have seen some verry impressive non mech BA armies that have done well.  It is just taking the time to study there weaknesses and strengths then learning how to use them to your advantage.

[skavengear]

so ive been looking long and hard at different armies and now that ive looked through each codex and whatnot. taking time making lists of things i like. dont take offense if i say something about your army, im in no way bashing them, this is based off my style and opinion. tau i only wanted for the broadside. eldar only for the wraithlord and avatar. daemons are too expensive and limited options. dark eldar are just too confusing. the inquisition is too many points. imperial guard i could not possibly play, i need something that can fight hard in combat. space wolves i liked but i just didnt find a solid list i said "wow, i like that". blood angels fool you into wanting assault, but theyre very mechanized.

ive come up with a harsh realization. it seems that i really like the style of space wolves and chaos space marines best.

for chaos daemons my likes/questions are:
what does the lash do? please explain
i love the options for daemonic weapons, but who actually uses them?
typhus is super cool
having thousand sons and popping a daemon out of them seems cool as well, but do they take up an hq choice?
daemon princes are very nice

id definitly be happy trading in my blood angels for a small typhus army with a prince and typhus. typhus is the coolest dude ever!

thoughts?

[skavengear]

I think your idea of Nids is warped.  Nids have some very viable options that fall in line with BA and army choices that I very diverse depending what you want to do.  Any army you play are going to have these choices.  You need to open your mind and really try to focus on the best uses for what you are fielding and the best ways to utilize there strengths. 

Rick is correct in that 4 priests are not needed.  1 or 2 are sufficient to cover your entire army.  Which intern will open up more options for you.  I have seen some verry impressive non mech BA armies that have done well.  It is just taking the time to study there weaknesses and strengths then learning how to use them to your advantage.

i guess so, but why not 4 priests? isnt that the idea to have one on each squad? thats what ive seen being done on dakka and other places

[Grimwulfe]

No the priests have an effect radius so techniqelly 1 priest can cover multiple units.  As Rick said about your relying on them way to much and should save the points and use them for the better wargear that you need.

[Moosifer]

I think your idea of Nids is warped.  Nids have some very viable options that fall in line with BA and army choices that I very diverse depending what you want to do.  Any army you play are going to have these choices.  You need to open your mind and really try to focus on the best uses for what you are fielding and the best ways to utilize there strengths. 

Rick is correct in that 4 priests are not needed.  1 or 2 are sufficient to cover your entire army.  Which intern will open up more options for you.  I have seen some verry impressive non mech BA armies that have done well.  It is just taking the time to study there weaknesses and strengths then learning how to use them to your advantage.

i guess so, but why not 4 priests? isnt that the idea to have one on each squad? thats what ive seen being done on dakka and other places

I have gone back and forth, editing this many times before posting.  Before you go buying anything, play the game more.  Dont worry about losing, I repeat DONT WORRY ABOUT LOSING.  Learn the ways that people play and try and LEARN from playing against them.

When you have gotten comfortable in your overall knowledge of the GAME, then you will succeed with any army you play instead of using the crutch of dakka army list forums.

[Grimwulfe]

If you build it they will come!

[Ian Mulligan]

Losing is the source of the wisdom necessary to win.

[skavengear]

well i know rich (dont get mad if i spell your last name wrong) bourque and mike do said i should focus all my units on a single weaker target. so is this the right idea? since isnt that the only way several units would be in priest range.

also a thought. if i put a priest in a stormraven or landraider, does the 6" go off the vehicle? thatd be cool cuz i could put the priest with stormshields in a stormraven or land raider and follow my troops.

another suggestion was by cpt. bryan to make them all vanguards. so im guessing 2 tac squads for troops then the rest vanguards? but isnt it better to have the scoring assault marines at the cost of 1 more attack each? because i know that was the deal with death company, very powerful but it was a one time nuke and then youre stuck in the middle of nowhere or up shit creek without a paddle.

also, the two librarians were based off rick james's saying about the sanguinor with a 2+ 3+ save and feel no pain being awesome, well tada i have two of them leading my troops. i do want to drop one for seth but i have trouble finding a place for him to fit in.

[the_trooper]

for chaos daemons my likes/questions are:
what does the lash do? please explain
i love the options for daemonic weapons, but who actually uses them?
typhus is super cool
having thousand sons and popping a daemon out of them seems cool as well, but do they take up an hq choice?
daemon princes are very nice

id definitly be happy trading in my blood angels for a small typhus army with a prince and typhus. typhus is the coolest dude ever!

thoughts?

You mean Chaos Space Marines (huge difference, only similarity is in name at this point)
Daemon princes are ok.
Typhus sucks a lot.  He is the comedy option although once in a while I break him out and guard him like the wine glass he is. In the right set of circumstances he is a god. 
Summoned greater daemons are ok but are crap when coming out out of 60+ point models for a single 100 point model.
Lash allows you to move other models.  The wording allows you to touch other people's models.  A gentleman points to how you want it instead of touching other people's models.
I use daemons weapons but I also field other things that allow me to throw away a 140+ point unit without issue.

[skavengear]

so who uses the lash? is it a pskic power or wargear?

why does typhus suck? he looked pretty solid to me... but you are the pro 

i was saying field a squad of thousand sons. the "seregeant" is a sorcerer so couldnt i sacrifice that (like 16 points) for thedaemon? if it uses an hq id rather field two daemon princes or a chaos lord and a prince.

is my idea of having one of each troop choice in a rhino good though? (thousand sons, plague marines, noise marines, berserkers) and have like a "wrath of the four gods" list.

back to blood angels. what is the typical non-mech list you see at 2000 points. im for maybe one land raider/stormraven and a few rhinos, but no predators or stuff like that. also, mephiston, good in competitive sceene or no. my guess is no since no invul save, but againstnids i always use him to road block their troops  (s3 vs t6 = no damage EVER!!!!)