Author Topic: Dark Heresy: The New Thread  (Read 14175 times)

Rob S

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2008, 05:59:56 PM »
Alright, here's how I'm seeing things.

Fear in this game is very subjective, as such I need to be subjective when assigning it.  Say you had to make a fear test to enter a room full of dead bodies.  A player could easily argue that they grew up in a military hive where the dead were everywhere constantly.  That would be valid to let them ignore the test, however there may be penalties imposed - for example corruption for not being affected by such.

The situation we came across yesterday was that of a horrid warp spawn.  A demon whose features could not possible exist was sitting in front of you.  Wolf and Magnus, who grew up on a wilderness world fighting all sorts of creatures and not caring about running into an outnumbered combat full of creatures with mutated limbs, would be perfectly able to ignore it if that's what they were doing.  Or anything that they would argue.  However, I find it difficult to see that even with their strong upbringing that they would be able to resist the fear of seing such a horrible, impossible sight.  We're not talking about an animal with one extra limb, we're talking about a demon.

If they were raised on Cadia, where demonic invasion was commonplace, then perhaps it is fair to say that they could ignore it or perhaps gain a bonus.  But just being mentally strong against some horrifying things does not allow the acceptance of others.

On another note, Cookie has been inquiring about the Unnatural abilities, and others may begin to wonder as well if he says anything.  So I will make it known here, and also let him know the next time I see him.

Unnatural abilities, in the rules, allow for the bonus of whichever characteristic it is to be doubled when a situation calls for the bonus.  For example, with unnatural agility you would double the bonus when rolling initiative.  With unnatural toughness you would double the amount of damage you ignore (before armour) when you are hit.  Cookie has been talking about being put on a world with extremely harsh conditions for long periods of time.  Or any sort of similarity depending on the characteristic.  Unnatural intelligence meaning having been studying straight for years, etc.  However, this is not the case.

Unnatural Characterstics are just that - Unnatural.  With the exception of intelligence (and only very briefly, as a rank 8 adept), these are gained via demonic pacts.  Simply putting yourself through years of torture may raise your willpower, but it will not make it unnatural.  However, having a demon infest your emotions so you are unbreakable may.

These are my decisions on the two subjects. based on my own thoughts along with those of others on other forums.  I'm free to discussion, but I feel that these both make the most sense and will be the most fair to keep the game at a dangerous, but playable, level.
It's the throwing phase now.

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blantyr

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Traits and Fear
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2008, 02:13:11 PM »
Hmm...  By the book, I don't see that Unnatural Characteristic will solve Wolf's fear problem.  In spite of the name, Unnatural Characteristic doesn't double the Characteristic, only the bonus that comes out of the ten's column of the characteristic.  Thus, if Wicke were to gain Unnatural Willpower, her Willpower would still be 40, and fear tests would still be rolled on 40 or less, but if a psychic power added the her willpower bonus to its damage, the damage bonus would go up from 4 to 8.

Also, I sympathize with the conservative use of Traits.  Traits "may be gained through other means later in life, but they are almost never gained through choice."  One character choosing a Trait would be...  against The Way.  Half the party choosing the same Trait...  I don't think so.  I would support Rob if he decides that Traits are reserved for demonic pacts, characters that have just burned fate points coming back from the dead, failures on corruption tests, characters being bitten by a radioactive spider, or something similar.  If a character is too bland and boring (not our current problem, I think) and both player and game master both want to spice the character up some, sure, the player might encourage the game master to arrange for an exotic transformation.  Still, I wouldn't want to see traits used casually to change game balance or to maximize power gaming ability.

I personally think the perils of the warp mechanisms are too strong.  Wicke currently has more psychic powers she has never used (six) than those she has used (three).  For me, casual use of psionics has never been worth it, so Wicke generally avoids using psi, but Rob has not relaxed the psi rules from book.  I'd rather play Wicke as a laspistol and sword nobody than risk the dice transforming her into a character I won't want to play.

The fear mechanism might also arguably be too strong.  Still, Dark Heresy isn't D&D.  A mechanism that forces many characters to fall apart when confronted with the unknowable is appropriate to the 40K universe.  I can see why Rob won't want half the party bypassing such a mechanism.  I also don't see him as over using fear, though if the player's front line fighters continue to maximize their offensive hitting power, he might have to start using mechanisms other than lots of bad guys with swords and guns to present us with reasonable challenges.

Anyway, I'd again suggest folks look at the Unshakable Faith and Fearless talents.  These would boost bravery through the 'Elite Advances' mechanism, which might be less drastic a thing than letting players select Traits.  Would it be such an awful thing to let a feral world character take Unshakable Faith out of sequence, or perhaps a psycher take Favored by the Warp a bit early?

By the way, Rob, it seems that Psychers can take Unshakable Faith at Third Level.  I have 100 XP in hand, and vomit all over the front of Wicke's space suit...   Very undignified.  Hmm...  Re-rolling fear tests with a 40 Willpower.  64% chance of passing.  A chance to show up that cowardly wimp, Wolf...

The_Chef

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Re: Traits and Fear
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2008, 01:45:30 AM »
2 power swords, crazy flail. charges head first into combat. Destroys a bionic nightmare, scared of a little demon and a holy nun with a sword covered in frost. hahaha wolf wont live this one down, the damned robot passed the test!
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I do have a problem with Vulcan twin-linking every non-UltraMarine whatever-gun on the table.
Thank you for this Chase

Dark Angel Cadaver

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2008, 03:55:05 PM »
actually both tech-priests passed the test, but anyway i was talking this subject over with Kevin and Tim, and we all agreed that even if Wolf had some fear resistence because of him fighting like 10 foot squirils or whatever because this was different it was a frozen WARP BEAST, a daemon wich is flung out from the warp its self, im guessing, i dont know the exact description the book might have but im sure facing a Daemon is different from feral world cretures, but Robs explaination about living on a world where daemon are active in a way, then yes if that was the case there could have been a reasonable agrument.

Now i actually have a question for Rob, I dont  know if you saw it on the web sight or if anyone rolled for it but on FantasyFlightGames.com in the dark heresy link theres a page for "Home World and Career Mementos" i dont know if you would wnat anyone to or if anyone would want to but i have the sheet pinted out and will bring it on the next DH session but heres the link to the page: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/dark-heresy/pdf/mementos.pdf

Also i learned my Divination"A wise man learns from the death of others" adds a +3 to my intelligence making it a 63.

Rob S

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Re: Traits and Fear
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2008, 07:59:10 PM »
cared of a little demon and a holy nun with a sword covered in frost.

I'm curious as to whether or not my point has gotten across of what a scene it was that you witnessed.  ::)

Anyway, I will be happy to discuss what will be needed to take an elite advance in order to reduce the chance of you losing yourself to fear.  Please keep in mind that these will not be to say that anything and everything is of no bother to you, but it will perhaps make your character more of what you picture.

Bob, I have been considering what to do to reduce the chance of you succumbing to the warp.  I'd like to remind you of the psychic ability you have Resist Posession, which lets you reroll any failed test to resist being possessed by a demon up to an hour after you cast it.  While this does not allow resistance to all forms of perils, that will help you resist the worst result that you have unfortunately already faced.

Eric, I have seen that chart.  I didn't bring it up, but if players would like to use it to create a stronger background to their character it would be great to see.
It's the throwing phase now.

i was on the receiving end on occasion

The_Chef

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2008, 02:57:34 AM »
Well now that cookies trip to KRF is all set and I've worked a 12ish hour shift....were all set up for the big boss fight next week yes lads?
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I do have a problem with Vulcan twin-linking every non-UltraMarine whatever-gun on the table.
Thank you for this Chase

blantyr

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Re: Traits and Fear
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2008, 11:44:00 AM »
cared of a little demon and a holy nun with a sword covered in frost.

I'm curious as to whether or not my point has gotten across of what a scene it was that you witnessed.  ::)

I think I get the point.  That wasn't just a 'little' demon and a nun in frost.  That was the powerful remnants of a major warp manifestation.  I for one do not think you have been over using the fear game mechanics.  I also think that Wolf has so many very strong attributes that complaints about one weak attribute seem thin.  Should characters have no weaknesses?

I've also been thinking on why "Unshakable Faith" is made available to Psychers early, but not to Arbites.  Wicke lives with the warp every day.  It is always no further away than a thought.  For all that Wolf is familiar with physical threats, a warp manifestation is something else entirely.

Bob, I have been considering what to do to reduce the chance of you succumbing to the warp.  I'd like to remind you of the psychic ability you have Resist Possession, which lets you reroll any failed test to resist being possessed by a demon up to an hour after you cast it.  While this does not allow resistance to all forms of perils, that will help you resist the worst result that you have unfortunately already faced.

I'm enjoying Wicke as a personality enough that if you are content with psi use being very rare until she gets 'Favored of the Warp' I'll continue on as I have been.  I value Wicke the character more than I  value the ability to wield psychic powers.  Yesterday's run will set the pace.  She used psi twice in the grand climax fight, and that's it.  I'm not sure 'Favored' will really change said pace all that much.

***

General news....  Erik and I were the only active players, yesterday.  Rather than continue the Space Hulk plot line, we inserted a side adventure that took place before.  I discovered Wicke is getting a bit blase.  Oh, hum.  Another world.  She is getting to like her new sword.  Without Wolf being around, Wicke had to pretend that she was the close combat grossity.  She kept charging in close so she couldn't be shot at, but that tactic didn't work.  Her opponents kept dying, leaving her exposed to incoming fire.  The dice were with her.  There was one stretch where she killed four opponents in about six rounds.  Three times, wrath of the emperor.  Three times, she didn't get to roll for the second blow.  Her opponent died too quickly.

And 'Seal Wounds' does come in handy on occasion.  Things were looking bleak for a bit, but 5 points of healing from a faith point and 7 from Wicke can make a difference.  For the first time, Wicke rolled more than one dice to get off a psi power.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 12:00:05 PM by blantyr »

Rob S

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2008, 12:07:16 AM »
For those who see this, I may be a little late tomorrow (SEP 20).  I have a doctor's appointment at 10 (meaning they'll call me in at like 10:45, of course).  So just pass the word on.
It's the throwing phase now.

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blantyr

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2008, 08:34:27 AM »
And I'll be out.  I've something else scheduled.

Rob S

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2008, 08:43:41 AM »
And I'll be out.  I've something else scheduled.

Don't worry, we won't go shopping without you.  ;)
It's the throwing phase now.

i was on the receiving end on occasion

blantyr

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2008, 09:03:42 PM »
Don't worry, we won't go shopping without you.  ;)

Is there actually a shopping mall on this Emperor forsaken planet?

If you could briefly summarize what happened, I'd appreciated it.

Bob / Wicke

Rob S

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2008, 09:56:18 PM »
Well, DH didn't run this Saturday.  Eric was the only one to show up.  I suppose there was a mix of a few things that got in the way of those who hadn't told me they weren't coming.  Nevertheless, nobody missed anything.  Next Saturday, the 27th, the game will not run as I have a marching band competition.  So, I will inform you of the next date when I figure out what other dates I have the competitions.  In the mean time, let me know of any questions you have.  See you guys in the store.

Rob
It's the throwing phase now.

i was on the receiving end on occasion

blantyr

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2008, 12:32:00 AM »
A marching band competition tomorrow is apt to be kind of soggy...

At the moment, I'm not intending to go to BG tomorrow, but let me know if anything changes.

Bob / Wicke

Rob S

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2008, 12:33:21 AM »
A marching band competition tomorrow is apt to be kind of soggy...

At the moment, I'm not intending to go to BG tomorrow, but let me know if anything changes.

Bob / Wicke

Oh it will be quite soggy.  And a tip from the wise: Don't go tomorrow.  It's the magic prerelease.
It's the throwing phase now.

i was on the receiving end on occasion

blantyr

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Re: Dark Heresy: The New Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2008, 01:39:49 AM »
And a tip from the wise: Don't go tomorrow.  It's the magic prerelease.

Tip from the wise, noted.   ::)