Iron Man Table?

[Achillius]

Shooting other titans, gargantuan creatures, superheavies like plague towers, etc. 

It did come into play with Nick when checking range against my Banelord.

To be honest, the more obvious rules issue to me is LoS as it is to be drawn down the length of the barrel.

The Towering monstrosity is designed as you can see to allow for the fact that weapons mounted on the top of a bloody tall tower are going to have a tougher time engaging the ground around it's immediate vicinity.

You do anticipate where this is going. Line of sight down the barrel does not mean having a look from the muzzel to the target but down the length of the barrel. I'd call this rather difficult for modellers to pull off on their own, there's only so many ways that a PVC pipe is going to bend and all but the most dedicated are going to have a tough time making something that'd be that usable.

The obvious choice now is to create a system that allows modellers to do their best while maintaining the vision of the engine in question. Having a Titan x inches tall be able to shoot at it's own feet only if it's tall enough to see over it's own shoulders does not fit that vision.

I think apocalypse must have these monstrosities but if we are expecting rulings and fool proof rules on things that don't have models then we'll be disappointed. Any time we see a rule that we understand as a limitation, and then easily by-pass it , we should question whether we actually have by-passed it fairly or not.

Now this is my view and I expect that others will disagree. I'll play with this limitation on carapace weapons unless it causes a major upset with my opponent, in which case I can play it the other way.



cheers,
Alan

[blantyr]

I agree with Rich. We dont need to modify rules everything is clear cut in the books from my understanding and should not be open for further inturpritation.

Hmm...  I think I may switch to the "don't need to modify rules" camp.  It turns out that the 45 degree rule is in 40K V5.

In the rare cases when it matters (your tank might be targeting a sniper high up in a bell tower), assume that guns can swivel vertically roughly by 45 degrees, even if the barrel on the model itself cannot physically do that!  (40K V5, core rules, Page 59)

So long as that rule is honored, I'd be good.

[the_trooper]

The power of datasheets has been proven to be of little to no consequence.  They can be countered with proper team planning.  Manning up in this instance is a reference to dealing with what the opponents might bring.  I also think an Iron Man table is a goofy idea and I only perpetuated the thought because of the hilarity of it.

Titans should be limited just as much as TH/SS terminators or lance weapons should be.

[Serring]

Glad we cleared the towering monstrosity thing up.

@the_trooper
I agree that titans aren't overpowered but putting too much D weapons is kinda cheap. Both me and bob had stuff to kill the emperor but they were killed the turn they showed up with no chance of survival from D weapons. Gets annoying/agrivating but at lest the attempt was rather fun.

[Lykosan]

How dare you limit my Lance weapons! Just because I had 35 Lance weapons in that list is no reason to limit them

[blantyr]

The planet and lunar tables went to the side with D template superiority.  I would disagree with an argument that D template superiority was not relevant.  The sewer table went to the side whose players stuck around for the whole battle.

I've heard a proposal that all data sheets ought to be banned.  I've heard a proposal that data sheets which allowed multiple other data sheets or stratagems to be invoked should be banned.  I heard loud grumbling about Murf's all TH / SS terminator army month ago.

The lance thing is new to me.  At first proposal I'm not in favor of banning data sheets, cascaded data sheets, lances or TH / SS terminator forces.  I've seen no particular evidence that they are unbalancing the game, though I didn't get to see Murf in action to speak of.  D templates are the obvious game balance concern, and players who enjoy putting 100% of their points into superheavies, gargantuans and the like.  However, I don't laugh when other players seriously bring up what they think of as serious valid concerns.  I'm willing to listen, to give a fair hearing.

Veteran players are better able to play a complex game than newer players.  Veteran players are more apt to have exotic and expensive models.  Veteran players are quite capable of ruining the day of someone who hasn't invested as much time or money in the game.

I would like to think that the best of the veteran players would like to test themselves against other veterans.  Wiping the floor with less experienced players who had to scrape and push to get 4000 points of codex forces on the board brings a veteran no honor or glory.  I tend to see the veteran players striving to avoid the Iron Man concept as bullies and cowards.

But other than that, they can be good people.

[blantyr]

How dare you limit my Lance weapons! Just because I had 35 Lance weapons in that list is no reason to limit them

No wonder I couldn't take down the Black Emperor.  I only had 17 lance weapons.   

[Moosifer]

T e a m w o r k
G r o e p s w e r k
T r a v a i l  D ' é q u i p e
O μ α δ ι κ ή ε ρ γ α σ ί α
L a v o r o d i S q u a d r a
チ ー ム ワ ー ク
팀 웍
T r a b a l h o s d e E q u i p a

I would continue to go to other languages but I hope, nay PRAY you get the point

[blantyr]

Glad we cleared the towering monstrosity thing up.

@the_trooper
I agree that titans aren't overpowered but putting too much D weapons is kinda cheap. Both me and bob had stuff to kill the emperor but they were killed the turn they showed up with no chance of survival from D weapons. Gets annoying/agrivating but at lest the attempt was rather fun.

The first year was rather fun.  Two years in a row?  Less so.

[General Leevous]

Honestly the only problem I have is that everyone wants to bring a titan now to counter other titans. This year I counted a grand total of 12ish titans... honestly to me that's wicked lame. Not that I'm afraid of it, its just really how many big giant robots do we really need at 1 battle... idk that's just my oppinion though, every year there's more and more BIG superheavies and not a lot of diversity...

[blantyr]

T e a m w o r k
G r o e p s w e r k
T r a v a i l  D ' é q u i p e
O μ α δ ι κ ή ε ρ γ α σ ί α
L a v o r o d i S q u a d r a
チ ー ム ワ ー ク
팀 웍
T r a b a l h o s d e E q u i p a

I would continue to go to other languages but I hope, nay PRAY you get the point

I made an attempt at it.  I laid out a battle plan on the Order Moon thread.  I got two 'OK cool' responses and two non-replies.  I tried to talk to one of the non-replies at the store one night, and got a brief response.  "I don't do planning."  Not kidding.  Honest to the Emperor.  Anyway, veterans are better at a lot of things than newer players.  I decided early on not to turn into a commasar type, barking orders, and insisting on the sort of battle plan I would have liked to have.  This group of players wouldn't have enjoyed it.

The Order Moon thread was more about pirate hats and Lady GaGa songs than tactics.  We were honest to god play for fun folk, most of us lacking the experience to give the other side of the table a profound fight.  Both Dan and I did consider the problem of taking out opposing titans, but with the 36 inch / 45 degree rules not in force, these plans fell apart big time.

I'm not sure I really deserved the Heroic Last Stand certificate.  Start of turn 6, I had the last Order model surviving, a disengaged Nightwing fighter lacking its bright lances.  If I'd known I might be considered for a last stand award, I would have brought it back in and very likely gone down in flames.  As is, I was just tired of going down in flames.

But I wouldn't be proud of the Master of Objectives, either.  If y'all were interested in showing mastery, you'd be willing to go up against players of similar skill levels.

Cowards.  Bullies.

[Ian Mulligan]

But I wouldn't be proud of the Master of Objectives, either.  If y'all were interested in showing mastery, you'd be willing to go up against players of similar skill levels.

Cowards.  Bullies.

Clearly, the opposing team had full control over who played on what table.  

I must say, its not like everyone was unaware of what we were planning on doing there.

[the_trooper]

Cowards.  Bullies.

[Grand Master Steve]

T e a m w o r k
G r o e p s w e r k
T r a v a i l  D ' é q u i p e
O μ α δ ι κ ή ε ρ γ α σ ί α
L a v o r o d i S q u a d r a
チ ー ム ワ ー ク
팀 웍
T r a b a l h o s d e E q u i p a

I would continue to go to other languages but I hope, nay PRAY you get the point

Try Klingon they are nerds after all.

yes TEAM WORK takes down a towering super heavy. Its a mega battle usualy more then one person is involved. Quit whinning about super heavies. The game is made for people to bring stuff that they cant use in a normal game of 40k. So you want to tell me people who have titans which are already not allowed in normal 40k should not be allowed to have their titans in apocolyps either? No let them bring it. Be it one huge one or 5 small ones any army can deal with a titan. I think there is just to muich whining going on or major penis envy or both.

[Achillius]

I must say, its not like everyone was unaware of what we were planning on doing there.

We?
I knew something was fishy about that black Emperor, it was Ian in a costume....