Author Topic: Iron Man Table?  (Read 17988 times)

Serring

  • Heroic Tier Level 6
  • **
  • Posts: 218
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2010, 11:14:01 PM »
I don't think that there is enough people with pure superheavy armies for an Iron Man table but I don't know what everyone has. If there was enough it would be more fun just to take it as it comes. So what if the emperor seemed a bit too powerful due to the new ruling and the titans kill more than there points, thats the point of using a superheavy, blow lots of things up. I was creamed by the black emperor but it was fun trying to take it down and we might have had it not been for the assets used by chaos. With teamwork superheavies can be taken down and the kill all the better if you don't use your own, kinda like death or glory supersized. Anyway the titans and such were so effective because they were played well and not because they are too powerfull for the most part. (I myself accually might try to make a warlord with 2 ccw and hellstorms just for fun for next year, but most likely won't.)

the_trooper

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Pay where you play.
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2010, 11:43:08 PM »
MOAR TITAN HAMMER SQUADS.

Seriously, no need to worry about any type of titan if you have those and who doesn't have TH/SS termies to field it?  I'm pretty sure once you get the SM codex GW just hands them to you just so you can be TFG.  ;)

Assault Force of the Ancients.

And other Order / SM specific datasheets and assets that would cream even an Emperor titan.

Serring

  • Heroic Tier Level 6
  • **
  • Posts: 218
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2010, 12:14:06 AM »
I was using tau.

Moosifer

  • Paragon Tier Level 11
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • Egotistical Co-Conspirator
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2010, 12:23:51 AM »
I was using tau.

The piranha datasheet is pretty awesome

Serring

  • Heroic Tier Level 6
  • **
  • Posts: 218
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2010, 12:33:01 AM »
I only have one and I don't use it often so for normal play buying a lot more might be a big waste tho good.

Achillius

  • Epic Tier Level 26
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2010, 12:15:31 PM »
The "New ruling" on the titans was a mistake. I would not expect it to happen again.

Titans like any other super heavy suffer when you get in close and they have no infantry support to screen them. SO.....

Get in close to those Titans and you can own them.
With the Emperor getting within 36 inches means what can shoot you is "only" what's on their arms. Not to mention the 6 fire-points in their legs.

Warlords have a similar rule for 24 inches and no troops in their legs.

If you get within 12 there's no shields to worry about either.

Seriously, mobile armies should eat Titans that appear without infantry support.

Just remember the closer you are when it goes boom the more chance you have of dying gloriously :)

But that's the nature of the beast....

Cheers,
Alan


But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)

Grand Master Steve

  • Guest
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2010, 05:19:51 PM »
The "New ruling" on the titans was a mistake. I would not expect it to happen again.

Titans like any other super heavy suffer when you get in close and they have no infantry support to screen them. SO.....

Get in close to those Titans and you can own them.
With the Emperor getting within 36 inches means what can shoot you is "only" what's on their arms. Not to mention the 6 fire-points in their legs.

Warlords have a similar rule for 24 inches and no troops in their legs.

If you get within 12 there's no shields to worry about either.

Seriously, mobile armies should eat Titans that appear without infantry support.

Just remember the closer you are when it goes boom the more chance you have of dying gloriously :)

But that's the nature of the beast....

Cheers,
Alan

Alan speaks the truth. Originaly 4th company was assinged to guard our emperor titan and I was ready to defend it to the death and go out in a blaze of glory if it went boom.



blantyr

  • Epic Tier Level 21
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Bob Butler, former Abington guy
    • Wicke's Web
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2010, 11:27:42 PM »
The "New ruling" on the titans was a mistake. I would not expect it to happen again...
Alan speaks the truth. Originaly 4th company was assinged to guard our emperor titan and I was ready to defend it to the death and go out in a blaze of glory if it went boom.


I too consider the interpretation killing the 36 in range minimum to be a mistake.  If codex armies are to fight the big titans, I believe it important that the minimum range rules should be played as originally intended. 

Is anyone seriously arguing for the "New Ruling" at this point?

While there are lots of things we might discuss at length, and we have all sorts of time to do so, we might want to put this one to bed.

the_trooper

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Pay where you play.
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2010, 11:54:38 AM »
There is a minimum range for carapace weapons.  It would come into play with say enemy titans and units in larger buildings, etc.

From the main rule book:
Quote
Vehicles & Measuring Distances
There is however a notable exception, a vehicle's weaponry.  When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon, whilst line of sight is determined from the weapon's mounting point along it's barrel (as explained later).


Under the warlord entry:
Quote
Weapons mounted on the carapace of the Warlord have a minimum range of 24".

How it was wrong to interpret it according to this rule? (Serious question, not looking to start a flame war but when stating something is wrong about a rule, lets post the rule to counter the argument)

Achillius

  • Epic Tier Level 26
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2010, 12:58:21 PM »
Okay,
       let me as this question:Why is the rule there if, as you've pointed any titan built more than 2ft high  will not be affected by it?

This may take a bit of back and forth but hey...

Cheers,
Alan
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)

the_trooper

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Pay where you play.
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2010, 01:22:08 PM »
Shooting other titans, gargantuan creatures, superheavies like plague towers, etc. 

It did come into play with Nick when checking range against my Banelord.

To be honest, the more obvious rules issue to me is LoS as it is to be drawn down the length of the barrel.

blantyr

  • Epic Tier Level 21
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Bob Butler, former Abington guy
    • Wicke's Web
    • Email
Firing Arc and Line of Sight
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2010, 03:00:16 PM »
There is a minimum range for carapace weapons.  It would come into play with say enemy titans and units in larger buildings, etc.

From the main rule book:
Quote
Vehicles & Measuring Distances
There is however a notable exception, a vehicle's weaponry.  When firing a vehicle's weapons, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon, whilst line of sight is determined from the weapon's mounting point along it's barrel (as explained later).


Under the warlord entry:
Quote
Weapons mounted on the carapace of the Warlord have a minimum range of 24".

How it was wrong to interpret it according to this rule? (Serious question, not looking to start a flame war but when stating something is wrong about a rule, lets post the rule to counter the argument)

For the most part, playing by that rule would be fine from my perspective.  (My perspective is from the table top a foot or so away from an Emperor's toes.)  If you measure line of sight from the mounting point of the Black Emperor to the ground, there would be an effective minimum range of at least 36 inches in most directions.  The body of the Black Emperor (and the Red Emperor as well) just gets in the way of shots aimed near the feet of the titan.  If we had played by the above rule strictly, an awful lot of the shots targeting Dan and I would have been misses due to blocked line of sight.

I suspect the 36 inch minimum range in the rules for carapace weapons was intended to simulate this firing arc and line of sight problem simply.  Also, if we were using, say, a string or laser to determine line of sight, and as players are scratch building their titans, it would be tempting for a scratch building player to mount carapace weapons way forward on the carapace so as to increase the coverage of the firing arc.

I would be inclined to keep the 36 inch rule rather than tempt scratch builders to improve their firing arcs or require tall step ladders so we can eyeball titan carapace lines of sight.  I won't get emotional about the precise rule being used so long as the spirit of the 36 inch rule is kept, that carapace weapons aren't supposed to be able to shoot one's own toes, and that scratch builders copy the Forge World carapace designs with this in mind.

I'll also repeat a suggestion for a 45 degree down firing arc for carapace weapons.  A warlord shooting at an Emperor shouldn't have a problem depressing weapons to hit its target.  If a target is tall enough, it might be hit even if it is within 36 inches.

the_trooper

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Pay where you play.
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2010, 04:13:42 PM »
No need to modify the rules.  It's not an interpretation issue, it's a strength of a datasheet issue which aren't issues in Apocalypse.

blantyr

  • Epic Tier Level 21
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Bob Butler, former Abington guy
    • Wicke's Web
    • Email
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2010, 05:58:23 PM »
No need to modify the rules.  It's not an interpretation issue, it's a strength of a datasheet issue which aren't issues in Apocalypse.

Well, some folks do care about the strength of data sheets in Apocalypse.  In the Disruptor Beacon discussion, at various times different people argued letter of the rule as written, intent of the rule, game balance, fluff and common sense.  I don't think any of the above might properly always trump, nor should any of the above always be totally ignored.

I will get dubious if people start scratch building titans with firing arcs distinctly different from the Forge World models or the 36 inch Emperor / 24 inch Warlord rules.  That would be a symptom of corruption.

Grand Master Steve

  • Guest
Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2010, 06:11:55 PM »
I agree with Rich. We dont need to modify rules everything is clear cut in the books from my understanding and should not be open for further inturpritation.