Author Topic: Iron Man Table?  (Read 18590 times)

General Leevous

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2010, 12:06:00 AM »
I completely agree with rick. The point of the megabattle is to compliment eachother. Matchinhg range with melee, heavy hitters with fast and mobile units. Not everybody bringing the biggest and baddest things. This year we kinda went overboard on the superheavies and I was kinda disapointed in that respect but such is life. If everyone strategised a little more mabye we wouldn't have all these problems.  Point in case I put almost half my points into 2 superheavies for 1 to die and blow up half my army and the other to have 2 persision strikes put on him and die in 2 turns not nearly making up for its points. This is why I'm doing a different force next year and hopefully I can compliment my teammates better without the use of superheavies (yes ladies and gentlemen, no scabie or tower for me next year ;) )
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KingElthur

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2010, 12:14:28 AM »
I just have two simple questions.......what happened to Kevin? And who replaced him?

Opforce3

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2010, 12:50:12 AM »
dont worry, lee. i did a pretty good job of thinning out the superheavies.


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General Leevous

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2010, 12:55:58 AM »
 :-\
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jesterofthedark

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2010, 12:57:01 AM »
still here in all my glory drew.  I just don't think we need to screw with the mega battle, it just always ends up in a bad place.  A line gets drawn in the sand and you split everyone on it.  No super heavies at the mega battle is like no hot fudge at a sundae party.  I mean hey sure we can total still get down with the jimmies and whipped cream but its just not the same.  

All these alterations happen because someone feels like they got snubbed in some way.  So, rules get adjusted to promote a more fun/fair atmosphere.  But, it doesn't.  I have other things to say but I don't think I can phrase it in a manner that won't offend.  Not something I usually concern myself with but I don't want to take this to a place that we lose sight of where the thread should be going.

Chase

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2010, 01:23:15 AM »
I was very happy with how the Megabattle turned out this year.

I would not like to see most of the Megabattle heavily limited in the future.  I like the idea of "minor" restrictions on a table or two, sort of like the Sewer table this year.  I felt like the restrictions on the Sewer table were really good and allowed for exactly the type of game we wanted to see down there (tons of codex stuff with a few bigger things).

I also felt like the game played on the Planet Surface table worked out very well.  It was certainly my favorite table and in my opinion best resembled the type of Apocalypse game I wanted to see.  The Disorder side may have been out gunned overall and they did end up losing the table but I think it's unfair to place the blame on lack of Super-Heavies.

I paid little attention (comparatively) to the Moon table.  From what I understand the table was won largely due to the fact that one team behaved as a unit, made sure they had many bases covered, used assets to make sure the pace of the game went exactly how they wanted it to, and made sure their Emperor was able to fire each turn.

I think that trying to micro-manage each table more than a little bit does do damage to the integrity to the event.  With that said, I am very interested in what the community has to say about all of this.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of opinions present here, even though they contradict each other.

I would like to get a list together of everything people DID NOT like about this years event.  I will post a thread on that now.  (Thanks, Kev)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 02:20:33 PM by Chase »
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blantyr

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2010, 04:46:58 AM »
I was very happy with how the Megabattle turned out this year.

I believe the 2010 Megabattle was a vast improvement over the prior year and very well done.  The biggest change was the energy level at the end of the day.  At the end of the 2009 battle, everyone was dragging, and no one wanted to play 40K again for a week.  This one ended with enthusiasm.

I would not like to see most of the Megabattle heavily limited in the future.  I like the idea of "minor" restrictions on a table or two, sort of like the Sewer table this year.  I felt like the restrictions on the Sewer table were really good and allowed for exactly the type of game we wanted to see down there (tons of codex stuff with a few bigger things).

I also felt like the game played on the Planet Surface table worked out very well.  It was certainly my favorite table and in my opinion best resembled the type of Apocalypse game I wanted to see.  The Disorder side may have been out gunned overall and they did end up losing the table but I think it's unfair to place the blame on lack of Super-Heavies.

The bulk of the players are self regulating themselves at the zero to two baneblade level.  There are only four or so players who want to spend all their points on superheavies.  At this point, if the four or so players work together something that is right for them and that can attract a few more supporting players, we could have an Iron Man table, and no one would end up facing an all superheavy force that didn't buy into the exercise. 

It may be that the bulk of the players do not require any special limiting rules.  If someone does decide to start building lots big models, he should just apply to the Iron Man table.

I paid little attention (comparatively) to the Moon table.  From what I understand the table was won largely due to the fact that one team behaved as a unit, made sure they had many bases covered, used assets to make sure the pace of the game went exactly how they wanted it to, and made sure their Emperor was able to fire each turn.

I think that trying to micro-manage each table more than a little bit (like the sewer table this year) does do damage to the integrity to the event.  With that said, I am very interested in what the community has to say about all of this.

The flip side of the above good planning on the Disorder side of the lunar table was several young players on the Order side with more enthusiasm than Apocalypse experience.  I would not underestimate the worth of the enthusiasm.  I believe we managed to have fun while getting thoroughly clobbered.  This is nothing to dismiss lightly.  I am still trying to figure out where to display my Last Stand certificate.  Pirate hats, Lady GaGa and I Love the Moon, Arrrr...

Next year, if the same bunch of Order player comes together, we will likely have better asset selection, better models, better teamwork, and a better expectation of what it takes all around.  Nothing teaches like getting burned.  I did have a rough plan, as you might see if you visit the Moon thread in the Order section, but there wasn't a lot of give and take, exchanges of ideas to fine tune and amplify.  We just didn't have the experience of the players on the other side of the board, and the last minute change ups threw off what little planning we had.

But we still had no lack of enthusiasm.  Next year, I hope the Bryan Marine gets a chance to avenge the shocking upset head to head victory by Angarath...  That battle should stand as a symbol of this years Moon table.

I remember a poster showing a mighty American Bald Eagle in all it's glory swooping down on its prey.  The prey, a mouse, is shown giving the Eagle the finger.

Chase!  I salute you!   ;D

blantyr

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Iron Men?
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2010, 02:09:54 AM »
I would like to get a list together of everything people DID NOT like about this years event.  I will post a thread on that now.  (Thanks, Kev)

Hmm....  Not sure the list of things that one did not like was the best of all possible ideas.  Yes, a good list of things that might or might not need fixing is handy to have.  Bad vibes can also result.  The result could be interpreted as a whine fest.  It might be time to return to constructive criticism, to throwing out possible corrections not just what might be flaws.

I paid little attention (comparatively) to the Moon table.  From what I understand the table was won largely due to the fact that one team behaved as a unit, made sure they had many bases covered, used assets to make sure the pace of the game went exactly how they wanted it to, and made sure their Emperor was able to fire each turn.

There might be many things that make an Iron Man.  One that can be seen from an Apocalypse army list would be the number of points spent on superheavies.  There are other things that allow one to take names and kick butt.  Your list above is a danged good start, though by no means complete.  Your list includes things that are harder be excluded by rule, that one might well not want to exclude by rule, but neither can the be acquired overnight.  They define the sort of skills a veteran player giving a good thumping might have.

In my opinion, though, a true Iron Man would want to test himself against other Iron Men.  Someone who for one reason or another wishes to avoid doing so might be missing something important.

jesterofthedark

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2010, 09:26:02 AM »
Bob I just don't think you are giving the list a chance.  I also find it strange that you would feel that the list forum is a whine thread.  I actually would adhear that title to the pages of complaining and explantation that follow much of the statements here.

But, maybe I'm weird.  When someone posts three pages of how the titan is lame and ruined their game, it just sounds more like whining to me than say just posting a statement like "I feel the Emperor's brought too much power to the game this year."  Plus, a list would allow players who feel that maybe they don't have a good reason to say something just to say it.  The list forum is there to state what you didn't like, not there to explain yourself or have someone comment on what you posted.  The suggestion of correction forum just leads to people preaching about what "they" think should be instituted and sadly as Rob S has stated hearing your opinions is one thing actually being able to use them is another entirely.  At least if we know 10 people didn't like something we can work on changing it, it may not result in something they wanted but it will at least be an attempt and not a result that shafts another group in the process of making group A happy.

Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2010, 01:17:58 PM »
Chase, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Sewer Table was being micro-managed.  Aside from the fact that there was a bit of an incident, I don't think there was any kind of micro-management done with it, other than the fact that we had to end our game early due to 2 players needing to drop out.  Circumstances aside, I think the game on the Sewer Table went pretty well.

The Doomsday device activating the way it did was purely luck (or "unluck", depending on how you want to look at it).  I can't blame what happened down in the sewers so much as I can blame myself for not rolling my dice better.  I wouldn't blame yourself for anything that happened down there, unless of course you're referring to something else that happened on the table that I'm not aware of.
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blantyr

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2010, 01:46:34 PM »
I'm just concerned that we dwell entirely on the negative the tone and vibes will get negative.  

From what I've seen so far, a good deal of it was directed at hotel logistics.  With the Magnificent and Glorious Steve D working there, this can no doubt be addressed, though there might be a financial reality check associated with the Grand Ballroom solution.  

I was glad to see Logan007 agree that the Black Emperor situation was broken.  I can try to respect the opinion of those who weren't there to see it, but folk might want to consider that the situation was broken.

I really don't want to exclude the big models.  I love the craftsmanship and look of the Red Emperor.  Rob and Rich have some neat toys.  However, twice in two years I have faced players strongly into superheavies.  Ordinary forces, unless they are tuned specifically enough for superheavies that they are no longer able to fight other ordinary forces, will have grave difficulties against players who want to spend 100% of their points on superheavies.  Logan007's choice of the word 'broken' is appropriate.

I have thrown out my ideas on what fixes might be available.  I would very much like the players who enjoy playing 100% superheavies to make counterproposals, to negotiate among themselves something they think will work to their satisfaction, while addressing the concerns of others.

At the same time, by far the majority of the players are putting down zero to two baneblades, or the equivalent points worth of big stuff.  I don't see any need at all to mess with what most people are doing.

Chase

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2010, 02:18:47 PM »
Chase, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Sewer Table was being micro-managed.

I agree.  I realize what I wrote might lead people to believe that I thought the table was micro managed.  I do not.  I think the rules restrictions imposed were light enough and made for a really fun game of Apoc.  I'm not interested in changing or restricting what people can take MORE than that on a larger scale (more than a couple tables) for next year, but we will see.

If people want it different restrictions, cool.  An Iron Man table could be cool so long as 10 players really want that sort of game.
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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2010, 07:10:22 PM »
If people want it different restrictions, cool.  An Iron Man table could be cool so long as 10 players really want that sort of game.

I really want that sort of game, because i just wouldn't have as much fun on tables with restrictions for what you can and can't take.

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2010, 10:23:05 PM »
I really HATE the idea of restricting people.  Apocolyps is totaly about bringing the obserd to the table. Every army has an answer to everything in some shape or form no excuses. If my 4th company had to deal with an enemy Emperor ide drop pod my tactical marines with Melta guns and Multi meltas and blast it with my dev squads and the heavy weapons on my fliers. Oh look I also have power fists in my melta gun squads. Im just saying I was ready to fight the worst that game and was ready to do my part on taking down some big nasty deamon engine of death. If Steve D. can do it so can you. Rember apocolyps is a TEAM game its not up to one person to down some super heavy thats redicilous its a team effort.

Logan007

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Re: Iron Man Table?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2010, 10:45:54 PM »
I really HATE the idea of restricting people.  Apocolyps is totaly about bringing the obserd to the table. Every army has an answer to everything in some shape or form no excuses. If my 4th company had to deal with an enemy Emperor ide drop pod my tactical marines with Melta guns and Multi meltas and blast it with my dev squads and the heavy weapons on my fliers. Oh look I also have power fists in my melta gun squads. Im just saying I was ready to fight the worst that game and was ready to do my part on taking down some big nasty deamon engine of death. If Steve D. can do it so can you. Rember apocolyps is a TEAM game its not up to one person to down some super heavy thats redicilous its a team effort.

This post is full of win.

Btw Steve D., I named my Chapter master after you.