Author Topic: land raider cerberus  (Read 10134 times)

Logan007

  • Epic Tier Level 22
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2010, 09:51:25 AM »
Concerns?  Nothing wrong with smack talk as long as they can back it up...

The point is that this game can very quickly lose a lot of its fun if you design an army purely to win.

This game isn't balanced. Some armies are inherently weaker than a lot of other armies, and if you're playing to win, but happen to plunk down several hundred dollars on an army that has some inherent handicaps, you're not going to be happy.

And even if you take your time, learn which codex is considered top tier, then build a force for that army, the next codex or update to the rules can completely gimp your army.

Battlegrounds players has something of a 40k reputation for building and playing "fluffy" armies in non-tournament settings. It's one of the reasons the 40k community has grown so much around Battlegrounds.

So, yes. This kind of talk concerns me.

On a lighter note, both of you actually try making an army list based on fluff/story rather than complete domination of your opponent. Logan Grimnar doesn't have to fight in every one of your battles you know, it's kinda lame.

And incidentally, you'll probably find that your strategic/tactical sense in this game will get better playing with a weaker list.

Ian Mulligan

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1730
  • Egotistical Powergamer
    • Mutants and Shit
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2010, 11:33:51 AM »
Everyone enjoys the game for different reasons. There's nothing wroNg with ignoring the fluff and playing a tougher army. The backlash this community has for that sort of thing and it's inability to let others do what they want with their toys is a large reason why I play infrequently.

@new players: keep doing whatever is fun for you and your opponents. Who cares what a few people twice your age want you to do. This game is about your enjoyment.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 11:35:43 AM by Ian Mulligan »
beep bop boop

deathwatch101

  • Heroic Tier Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 99
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2010, 12:25:43 PM »
Thx for the info. I guess u was talkin really big
Knowledge is Power,Guard it Well

blantyr

  • Epic Tier Level 21
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Bob Butler, former Abington guy
    • Wicke's Web
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2010, 12:36:19 PM »
Interesting conversation.

Yes, there are different reasons and different ways to play the game.  I enjoy creating my own fluff and story line, and have got gritched at by those who like to play the official story lines.  I enjoyed painting up my highly irregular all female Imperial Guard, Demon and Chaos marine armies (originally one force until the rules changed).  Some people like the originality, others don't.

My first army was Eldar.  Lots of people recommend marine armies as first armies, but marines can be played brute force head on.  Can't do that so much with Eldar.  You have to use speed, maneuverability and carefully plan which of your units will engage which enemy unit.  Thus I see opponents playing a much more brute force straight ahead game than I prefer.  This is fine as an individual choice, less fine when the games and scenarios are slanted towards making the brute force sort of play inevitable.

I have encountered a store with a dominant clique of shooting players, where the players who chose assault armies gave up the game in disgust.  I have encountered stores with dominant cliques of rhino rushers.  Starting out as the Eldar player, where I can't do what is fashionable and popular at any given time, I've always been the joker, the one who designs a force to stop the fashionable popular trend rather than being part of the dominant crowd subtly or not so subtly trying to shift the culture of the store to favor their armies, their style of play.  To me, playing the role of the joker seems like an honorable role, but it doesn't always make one popular.  Cliques of veteran players leaning in a particular direction are not healthy for the community.

Years ago, I came up with a fluff army, the Cult of Khaine.  It was basically 8 squads of Eldar aspect warriors, one from each temple, plus an Avatar.  GW recently reinvented the concept as an Apocalypse data sheet.  It's the only losing army I've ever played that got driven from the store with cries of cheese.  Every single unit had a different special rule, unusual weapon or crazy ability.  It drove opposition not used to Eldar nuts.  It was also very fragile.  It had no focus.  I couldn't win with it.  People complained loudly and bitterly as they pounded me into the dirt.  Fluff, GW's or original, is sometimes interesting, but it doesn't always make everyone happy.

Anyway, not every player is pleased to game against every other player.  There are painters, there are story tellers, and there are competitors.  I'd like to think I'm one of many who does some of each.  I've learned there are some I can't compete against, and some who paint much better or much worse than I.  Some have obvious themes and stories, while others just want to deploy and start rolling dice.

I don't know that the community gains when some refuse to play against the unpainted army, when others play to win with a vengeance, using every trick in the book against rank beginners, when others work themselves into an angry frenzy upon seeing a converted model they don't like, or deliver long angry lectures upon seeing a perfectly legal force that isn't built according to their idea of the fluff.

If a given opponent isn't a lot of fun, avoid that opponent, but don't try to tell him he is playing the game wrong.  Don't try to ruin anyone's fun.

New players, sure, they will be trying hard to win.  They generally have to use every trick they've got to be competitive against anyone except each other.  Are there veteran fluffy players who are really scared?  (Insert silly school yard level taunting noises here.)  In time, the new people will become old people, and appreciate other aspects of the game.  The game always needs new blood.  The last thing the veterans should do is close ranks and exclude.  I've seen this done.  The stores are now closed.

Rurouni Benshin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Oro?
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2010, 12:40:17 PM »
I can see both sides of this fence.  Like Ian said, people enjoy the game for their own individual reasons.  Some play to have fun, and some play to win, and some do a combination of both.  Being a fairly new player myself, I've seen the "fun" aspects of playing fluffy army lists, and straight out competitive ones as well.  Typically, if I know who I'm going to be playing, I bring a list that I know both my opponent and I will enjoy playing with and against, but that comes with knowing your friends within the gaming community.

When I meet new players, I usually ask them first hand how "competitive" they usually play, and adjust my list accordingly.  That way I don't come as an overly competitive or uncompetitive player, b/c my list will cater to my opponent's expectations.

And while Ian makes a good point about the game being about the individual's personal enjoyment, I can see Mike's concern with the gaming community's reputation being put at "risk", when there're conversations on this thread going back and forth.  However, I don't think the "smack talk" going on between the forums will cause any serious damage to it.  Sure, it can be demeaning, and it may desensitize what a lot of the BG players try to promote, but age and maturity aside, you're going to have gamers of all ages who brag and boast, even a little.  If it ever gets out of hand, I have no doubt in my mind that either Chase or Derek would step in and set things straight, as they have done countless times in the past.
"This One Is Rurouni... Once Again, This One Will Drift."

Warhammer 40,000
Space Marines: 93-15-18
Apocalypse: 9-2-3
Tournaments: 7-7-1
Tale of 16 Gamers: 0-0-1

Grammar: Contractions 0/1/0
Number of games I've managed to play since Tristan's arrival: 70

Rob S

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
    • Facebook
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2010, 12:53:18 PM »
when others work themselves into an angry frenzy upon seeing a converted model they don't like

I just want to say this gave me a hilarious image of someone looking at their opponents army, seeing their HQ or something converted in a way they don't like, and becoming incredibly angry.
It's the throwing phase now.

i was on the receiving end on occasion

the_trooper

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Pay where you play.
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2010, 02:45:14 PM »
I have more fear for English than I have for the 40k community.

Grimwulfe

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1154
  • Dark Star Founding Member
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2010, 03:06:47 PM »
BILL COSBY for PRESIDENT!!!
Dark Star Founding Member
NOVA 2011 Trios Team Champions
NOVA 2012 Trios Team Champions
WGC 2013 Doubles Best Sportman
NOVA 2013 Trios Team Champions
DaBoyz GT 2013 Best Theme 1st Place
Adepticon Champ 2014 Best Imperial Showing
Adepticon Team 2014 Best Imperial Showing

Serring

  • Heroic Tier Level 6
  • **
  • Posts: 218
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2010, 03:29:17 PM »
Sry if I came over as overly competitive. The thing that stinks for Tau is there is little for fluff armies. Right now I kinda realize I might have been playing too competitively recently.

Rurouni Benshin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Oro?
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2010, 04:50:48 PM »
I have more fear for English than I have for the 40k community.

lol :D
"This One Is Rurouni... Once Again, This One Will Drift."

Warhammer 40,000
Space Marines: 93-15-18
Apocalypse: 9-2-3
Tournaments: 7-7-1
Tale of 16 Gamers: 0-0-1

Grammar: Contractions 0/1/0
Number of games I've managed to play since Tristan's arrival: 70

jesterofthedark

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1159
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2010, 05:37:18 PM »
true Tau lack offical fluff.  Your two options are A) Commander Farsight's enclave or B) Commander Shadowsun's force.  But, you could always look at it a different way, the lack of offical direction gives you free reign to take the army in your own direction. 

If you prefer a certain type of army you can take the theme in that direction.  You like the armored units? you can take pirhanna's, hammerheads and load all your troops into devil fish.  You like the look and use of the Vespid and Kroot, you can design an army the uses minimal tau units like crisis suits as commanders to a mercenary force.

Its all up to you.

Achillius

  • Epic Tier Level 26
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2010, 06:23:49 PM »
Interesting to see how this post changed.

 I'm not going to advocate one form of play over another. Ben has the right idea. Be prepared to play a game that both players will enjoy.

If you want to be uber competitive, great, just make sure the other guy/gal knows this ahead of time.

As for English, it's screwed....


cheers,
Alan
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)

Serring

  • Heroic Tier Level 6
  • **
  • Posts: 218
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2010, 08:29:11 PM »
As for English, I somehow have an A- on my progress report though that is most likely due to the fact that we have had 3 HW and 2 quizzes (all in one month, yep my class moves really slow).

I usaully play all Tau and no Kroot or Vespid because I don't really like them (I have 28 Kroot form the battleforces that I haven't bothered to asssemble). But my forces have lots of heavy support and elites (like 2 hammerheads, 3 broadsides, 6 crisis, one is HQ, in 1500pts) and low amounts of fire warriors in devilfish. I usually do this to deal with enemy armour while my crisis suits chew through termies with plas. Do you think this is too competative?

By the way, I plan to use something like this against Alley in a 2000pts game that will most likely occur this weekend.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 09:13:59 PM by Serring »

deathwatch101

  • Heroic Tier Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 99
    • Email
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2010, 09:43:53 PM »
i watch my rematch against u dan this weekend if possible
Knowledge is Power,Guard it Well

Rurouni Benshin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Oro?
Re: land raider cerberus
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2010, 09:59:04 PM »
i watch my rematch against u dan this weekend if possible

Speaking of English...  ;)
"This One Is Rurouni... Once Again, This One Will Drift."

Warhammer 40,000
Space Marines: 93-15-18
Apocalypse: 9-2-3
Tournaments: 7-7-1
Tale of 16 Gamers: 0-0-1

Grammar: Contractions 0/1/0
Number of games I've managed to play since Tristan's arrival: 70