Author Topic: Eldar Army List  (Read 2288 times)

Rurouni Benshin

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Eldar Army List
« on: February 16, 2010, 06:02:51 PM »
Hi everyone,
I’d like to get your opinions on this Eldar list I’ve put together.  I’m trying to make a melee and close combat intensive army (somewhat contrasting my ranged and shooty Space Marine army), and would like to know if you all think the list is well equipped for it.  Granted, it isn’t entirely melee based, but the elements of melee combat are in higher abundance than ranged attacks.

I’m also trying to model the army after the Biel-Tan craftworld (for those of you unfamiliar with Eldar, Biel-Tan is described as the most war-like and battle intensive of the craftworlds, focusing a lot of it’s forces in massive destructive powers, and the eventual resurrection of the Avatar of Khaine).

Anyways, here’s the list.  My main concern, flavor and fluff aside, is would the list contend well in a normal game (Non-Apoc).  Feel free to comment/butcher/advise away!

HQ:
- Avatar of Khaine       155 Points

Troops:
- Dire Avengers            247 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Diresword and Shimmershield
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapults and Cannons

- Dire Avengers            247 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Diresword and Shimmershield
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapults and Cannons

- Dire Avengers            247 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Diresword and Shimmershield
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapults and Cannons

Elites:
- Striking Scorpions     317 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Biting Blades and Scorpion Claw
   - Upgraded with Stalker and Shadowstrike
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapults and Cannons

- Howling Banshees:     292 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Executioner
   - Upgraded with War Shout and Acrobatic
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapults and Cannons

Heavy Supports:
- Fire Prism                  115 Points
- Fire Prism                  115 Points
- Fire Prism                  115 Points

Total Points:  1850
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Chase

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 06:04:53 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about the Eldar, but a close combat list seems awesome.  Good luck, Ben.
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Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 12:06:51 AM »
Thanks, Chase.  My one concern with the way this list is built is that I may be spending too many points on Wave Serpents.  If I can squeeze 2 or 3 of them out of the list, I can fit another whole unit of Avengers or Fire Dragons into it.

I guess I'll have to playtest it to see how it works.
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blantyr

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 04:48:42 AM »
Many years ago, at a time when most opponents were trying to win by filling 5 rhinos full of close combat oriented space marines, I played a list vaguely similar to the above.  In a time when one could declare aspect warriors to be troops, I filled 2 wave serpents with banshee, 2 falcon with scorpion, and escorted them with a prism.  I figured that if I was seeing all these mechanized marine armies, I could answer with mechanized Eldar.  How better answer rhino rush than with serpent rush?

Except bright lance equipped wave serpents could kill rhinos, where the rhino rushers needed to get into power claw range to hurt a wave serpent.  The highly mechanized rhino rushers were soon out of rhinos.  THey then had a choice between huddling together, in which case my vehicles picked them apart from range, or they spread out, in which case I'd have three or four of my squads jump on one of theirs.

As I suspected, wave serpent rush could really clobber a pure rhino rush.

Another player issued me a challenge, after.  An orc player.  A Green Tide no vehicles overwhelm with numbers orc player.  He lined up a tidal wave.  I lined up in a nice balanced boring line of five Falcon hulls opposite him.  24 screaming inches of movement later, the balanced line turned into a refused flank, as my entire army squared off against half of his.  I launched a perfect flanking attack.  In those days, one could leap out of a vehicle and assault.  Killed a lot of orks.  It was pretty.  It was an elegant example of Eldar speed and tactics confronting brute force.

Unfortunately, the attack barely made a dent in the numbers of the green tide.  I just didn't have enough models with enough strength and toughness to take on that many orcs.  No matter how elegantly 32 close combat models might attack 150 close combat models...  I had a problem.

I have dreamed of playing highly mobile Eldar fast scouting forces on a basketball court sized playing surfaces with no limit on the number of turns.  With the speed and range of a Prism, one might do some very interesting things.

On a six by four foot table with a six turn time limit, one can be forced into a more brutal sort of contest where one can't quickly disengage whenever one found one's self at a disadvantage.

So, yes, Eldar vehicles, while very capable, are  also terribly expensive.  If you try to mount you entire force aboard fast hulls, you might not find yourself with enough numbers against a hoard.

Wave Serpents and Prisms are also 12 12 10 unless they get moving fast.  They are pretty fragile   A mixed army with a goodly number of anti-tank weaponry would slow you down pretty quick.  There are enough mechanized guard armies wandering around these days that you see quite a few armies that could demechanize your force reasonably quickly.  I generally like holo fields and spirit stones so my falcons and prism last a bit.

My other thought is that the Avatar is the only slow model in your force.  While the Avatar is much respected in Biel Tan.  Still, you might want to consider one of the phoenix lords.  With the above mix, it should likely be Asurmen, personification of the Dire Avengers.

I also like the Dire Avenger's bladestorm.  30 avengers hopping out of vehicles and unloading 3 shot each could be intense.

This style of list could be wild, but improved Eldar vehicles are expensive, base Eldar vehicles are fragile, and the size of the resultant list would be small.  You might manage some cool stuff against the right opponent, but it won't be a general all purpose list.

Then again, general all purpose Eldar lists are hard.

Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 09:04:51 AM »
Thanks Bob, and I agree that Wave Serpents are ridiculously expensive (100 points minimum!  WTF!) 

Here are my thoughts, after going over what you said and reviewing the list.

1. I replace the Avatar with Karandras, and attach him to my Scorpions.  I then can take out the Wave Serpent that's transporting the Scorpions, since they can infiltrate/outflank, it won't be as necessary for them to be transported as quickly.

2. I take out 2 of the other 4 Wave Serpents carrying the Avengers and Banshees, freeing up 200 points, while upgrading the remaining two with TL Bright Lances, instead of the standard TL Starcannons.

3. That leaves me with enough points for a full squad of Fire Dragons, with an Exarch, upgraded with Tank Hunters and a Firepike.

The army is not a lot less mobile and mechanized, but I've got another squad, and stronger fire power coming from the Wave Serpents.  2 of my Dire Avenger squads will have to leg it out, while one gets a ride, along with the Howling Banshees.

I'll try to see how Asurman works with the group.  Only down side to Karandras is that he doesn't get any invulnerable saves, but in close combat, the guy is a beast.  And what the hell is up with Scorpions not having Fleet?!  Out of the entire damn army of Troops and Elites, they get hosed on Fleet?!  I don't get it!
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Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 09:28:22 AM »
Revised List:

HQ:
- Karandras               215 Points

Troops:
- Dire Avengers            282 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Diresword and Shimmershield
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapult and Bright Lance

- Dire Avengers            147 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Diresword and Shimmershield

- Dire Avengers            147 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Diresword and Shimmershield

Elites:
- Striking Scorpions:     192 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Biting Blades and Scorpion Claw

- Howling Banshees:     327 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Executioner
   - Upgraded with War Shout and Acrobatic
   - Wave Serpent equipped with TL Shuriken Catapult and Bright Lance

- Fire Dragons:           195 Points
   - Exarch equipped with Firepike
   - Upgraded with Tank Hunters

Heavy Supports:
- Fire Prism                  115 Points
- Fire Prism                  115 Points
- Fire Prism                  115 Points

Total Points:  1850
"This One Is Rurouni... Once Again, This One Will Drift."

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Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 09:28:45 AM »
Wow... Can't believe what a difference taking out 3 Wave Serpents did.
"This One Is Rurouni... Once Again, This One Will Drift."

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blantyr

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 10:19:05 AM »
Wow... Can't believe what a difference taking out 3 Wave Serpents did.

The revised list is a lot more general purpose.  The unimproved Prism are not my style, but with three of them you might make it work.  Early on, I'd focus on clobbering long range enemy vehicle killing.

Fire dragons on foot will be a bit tricky.  An enemy who has seen them before wouldn't send a worthy target their way, or would clobber them before they get within 12 inches of anything valuable.  They can be effective, but working them into position on foot will be a challenge.

THen again, I haven't found a good list for the V5 era.  Eldar were my first army.  For something like six years I played nothing else.  They are highly specialized.  With my large and versatile model collection, if I knew my opponent, I could generally put together a force mix that would be highly problematic for him. 

The problem was creating a list that could take on all comers.  I would generate my army list in advance, not knowing who I was to fight.  For a while I would go to the store with six army lists, and either asked the opponent which Craftworld he wanted to fight, or roll a dice for Craftworld.

I've been playing mostly Guard of late.  My last spectacular success with Eldar was a total accident.  I got to Battlegrounds and discovered I'd left my troop box behind, which contained all my dire avengers and guardians.  To be legal, I had to put down a crazy list with mixed themes, ten wraith guard escorted by wraith lords and psychers formed my center, with guardian jetbikes and shining spears flying around the flanks.  It was basically an Iyanden core with Saim Hann on the edges.  It seemed to confuse the opponent.  Not surprising as it confused me too.  Tough six troops rerolling 3+ saves presented a nice challenge.

Your new list looks playable, but don't be surprised by a need for trial and error.  Eldar are deadly but fragile.  The specialization of the aspect troops are cool, but finding the right mix so you have the right specialties available against most opponents might take trial, error, time, and a willingness to buy just one more squad in the hopes that you have figured out what you need.

Not a lot of players stick with it.  Hope you can make it work.

Bob

Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 11:32:11 AM »
Hmm... You make a good point about the Fire Dragons being out in the open.  I guess I could put them in the WS instead of the Avengers to give them a little added protection.  It would probably be more practical to keep them in there since they're likely only to be coming out and shooting anyway, since they're not Assault type infantry.

I know playing the Fire Prisms bare may seem to be a risk, but the reason why I chose to play them that way is from a strategy I learned while playing Space Marines.  Granted, I could be totally off on this idea, being that it's with a new army, but I think the theory is still sound.  The way I see it, the more targets I have, the more my opponent has to shoot at.  So against an army that is more point focused than mine, he would have to concentrate more of his firepower to one squad, in order to either kill it outright or just to incapacitate it. 

Spirit Stones and Holo Fields are great, but when I take both for all three it's so damn expensive.  At 45 more points per Prism, I could field almost another group of Avengers (and actually I did, since I have a 3rd group of them).  I toyed with the idea of going with only 2, but the moment one of them gets so much as even stunned, I can't link my Prism cannons together.  At least with 3 on the table, my opponent would have to take out 2 before I lose the linked Prism Cannons. 

So my gut feeling with this idea was either go with 3, or none at all.  I could instead invest in a second HQ, or put in some Fast Attack, or even put back in the Wave Serpents, only with Bright Lances instead.  I'll have to work it a bit, and see how it flows.

Thanks again, Bob.  You've been a great help.
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blantyr

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 08:02:25 PM »
Hmm... You make a good point about the Fire Dragons being out in the open.

The Wave Serpent is not only protection for the Fire Dragons, it's a delivery system.  It's their best chance of getting within 12 inches of a worthy target, and getting off a volley.  Mind you, after seeing the results of that first volley, the opponent generally resolves that there shall be no second volley...

I'd also note there aren't a lot of targets worthy of ten strength 8 melta weapons.  That's overkill against most vehicles short of the superheavy class.  Squads of terminators might be the natural prey of such a big group of dragons.  When I play my dragons (which isn't all that often) I usually put a squad of 6 in a falcon.

I know playing the Fire Prisms bare may seem to be a risk, but the reason why I chose to play them that way is from a strategy I learned while playing Space Marines.

Note, I said 3 bare Prisms were not my style rather than they wouldn't work.  It's worth trying.  Back in the old days, skimmers could only be glanced, and re-roll on the glance table was great protection.  These days, not so much.  You may well be doing the right thing for the current rules.

I might just have been thinking too much like an Eldar.  Preserve the resources of the dying race.  Attrition tactics might be necessary to win a battle, but should be avoided if one is to preserve the race.

Thanks again, Bob.  You've been a great help.

You're welcome!  The gaming community needs more Eldar players.  When you get your force working, perhaps we could get together and team up for the occasional Apocalypse event.  We have too many Order on Chaos battles.  Eldar taking on someone or another might be a good change.

Eldar Bob

Rob S

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 01:36:59 AM »
Eldar taking on someone or another might be a good change.

I'm always up for that...  ::)
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Riesbyfe

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 05:08:31 PM »
Karandras is the man but you should think about dropping him for two doomseers. A full squad of fire dragons is overkill in my opinion. It’s hard to imagine really needing ten melta guns to kill anything. Give the dire avenger Exarch’s dual shuriken catapults dire sword and shield are far too expensive. Other than that list list looks solid. Just might want to think about dropping something in favor of transports. You really need to stay mobile due to how squishy Eldar are. Good luck making them they are a lot of fun to play.


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Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 11:40:57 AM »
More than 2 people have told me that having more than 5-6 Fire Dragons is a tad excessive, it'll definitely free up some points for me.  Others have also suggested Farseers with the Doom and Guide powers as well.

Giving my Avengers Bladestorm, in tandem with those two psychic powers could be devastating for my opponent, especially if they're in Assault range in the same phase.  It'll take some tweaking and playtesting, but I plan to get the most out of my soon-to-be Eldar army.

Thanks again!
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Opforce3

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Re: Eldar Army List
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 01:43:06 AM »
i also feel like the list needs transports of some kind. eldar don't have the durability or numbers to effectively hoof it across the table in most situations. and i agree with bob about the fire prisms. they're pretty good to start, but they can be nasty with some upgrades. this is all coming from someone with 1 week of experience playing eldar in 3rd edition, and who hasn't fought them in a very long time.


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