Opinions new Tyranid 'dex

[blantyr]

Rurouni

The simple version.  Psychic shooting attacks are shooting attacks.  Monstrous creatures can only shoot twice.  Smaller creatures can only shoot once.  I can't swear it's that simple, but it seems like a legit argument.

Also, immobile vehicles cannot contest in the Mega Battle, which could be problematic for drop pod like things.  Now, if the bug thing isn't a vehicle???

[Rurouni Benshin]

Also, immobile vehicles cannot contest in the Mega Battle, which could be problematic for drop pod like things.  Now, if the bug thing isn't a vehicle???

I wasn't aware of this... But since it's technically a monstrous creature, maybe it can.  As for regular game play (as in non-Mega Battle games), I'm pretty sure it still would though

[Matt Thomas]

OT:

The Tyranofex seems a little overpriced for what he does. I think a carnifex with a venom cannon will be more effective in the long haul and will save you some points.

I was thinking something similar. I am wondering about it with either of the other weapon options though.
Assault 20 just sounds cool, even if it ends up being useless.

[Matt Thomas]

As for the Transport spores that Matt brings up, they certainly can contest objectives just as a Drop Pod would if it landed by one.  When I first played against it though, it was an Annihilation game, and being that it is susceptible to Instant Death, it didn't contend as well as my opponent had hoped.  But it did bring down a Doom of Malintide onto the table, which did it's damage as well before taking 3 Lascannons to the face.

As for it's weapon, if it is similar to the Drop Pod, in that it can't shoot until the turn after it's been put into play, I don't know how effective it'd be.  Is it a buyable upgrade, or does it just come with it to start?  I could see if it were buyable, then players might just forgo taking it if it's only 6" in range, but I've never seen it used before.

It has lash whips and a 6 inch weapon base and it is unclear wither you can opt NOT to buy one of the several additional longer range weapons. Personally there is an 18" twin linked that I think would be worth the 10 or 15 points (I forget which).
I would have to check on shooting the turn it came in. I didn't read those rules as carefully as I do some.
At 50-60 points I think it should be decent at contesting on average, but not necessarily brokenly so. It will of course depend upon what is fielded against it.

I am honestly not sure how I feel about instant death on larger beasts with 6 wounds and such. In some ways it is what instant death is about... in others it feels a little excessive. It is what it is but I could see something like D6 wounds or D3+1 being a neat alternate rule if GW got it's act together.

[Matt Thomas]

Also, immobile vehicles cannot contest in the Mega Battle, which could be problematic for drop pod like things.  Now, if the bug thing isn't a vehicle???

Please not the title of this thread. This is not about the Mega Battle it is about the new Codex. How a non-vehicle spore will interact with objectives in the mega battle is a question for a different thread.

[Matt Thomas]

1. Every unit should list a base size. There is no reason not to list this and every reason to do so.

2. GW is not always clear about when you MUST select one of X options and when you MAY select 1 of X options or none. Clear wording is needed.

3. The organization of the new codex is a frikin mess and while page numbers are listed going one direction (points page to fluff) they are not listed the other way (filled them in myself).

3.1. The 'fluf' pages are not clearly organized and do not specify which units are troops, fast attack, etc.

3.2 The 'fluf' pages do not show any points cost or range which is aggravating.

[jhobin]

I was thinking the tyranofex with the templates might be worth it as well only downside id its 250pts. For 175 you can get a Htyrant with a thorax swarm for 60 points more you can give him a buddy (TyrantGuard) for 235. Same amount of wounds and toughness, but shodow of the warp and synapse which the Tranofex doesn't have?? (no 'dex on hand)

I was impressed this past weekend with the Hiveguard. I didn't think they would be that good but for 150pts 6 str8 shots ap4 24inch range was a good light armour puncher.

[Rurouni Benshin]

QFT

2. GW is not always clear about when you MUST select one of X options and when you MAY select 1 of X options or none. Clear wording is needed.

The Eldar Codex is very guilty of this as well, specifically under the Wave Serpent entry.

3. The organization of the new codex is a frikin mess and while page numbers are listed going one direction (points page to fluff) they are not listed the other way (filled them in myself).

Again, Eldar Codex very guilty of this too.

3.1. The 'fluf' pages are not clearly organized and do not specify which units are troops, fast attack, etc.

3.2 The 'fluf' pages do not show any points cost or range which is aggravating.

At first, this took me some time to get used to, and eventually I just started remembering a lot of small details about each unit as I read it more and more (ie - how many points for certain upgrades). However, this was only with the Space Marine Codex, which for what it's worth, is fairly well organized, IMHO.

Space Marines are also the only codex I've seen that list units at the minimum amount (ie - Tact Squads listed at 90 points for the minimum 5 models), while listing additional troops by their point value, where almost every other codex out there lists each model individually.  I know it's only arithmetic, but it would save a bit of time if GW would just follow this model with each codex.  It wouldn't be redundant, and it would speed game play/organization along very well.

Personally... with each and every other codex I've picked up, it's almost like reading a new language, in terms of how "organized" it is written.  I share a lot of Matt's sentiments when it comes to this, since I'd really like the chance to play other armies and not have to spend a week's worth of dedicated time to learn each codex (like the Eldar one...).  But I guess that's what makes 40K more "special" of a game.  

[Matt Thomas]

Rurouni,
I thought the old Tyranid codex was better organized / more usable. What did you think of that one in terms of layout?

[Matt Thomas]

I was thinking the tyranofex with the templates might be worth it as well only downside id its 250pts. For 175 you can get a Htyrant with a thorax swarm for 60 points more you can give him a buddy (TyrantGuard) for 235. Same amount of wounds and toughness, but shodow of the warp and synapse which the Tranofex doesn't have?? (no 'dex on hand)

IIRC the Tyrant guard does not work as it used to. So in close combat there would be a difference.
But I can see what you are saying about it being an expensive choice with potentially better ways to spend the points.
I think the Tyranofex is going to either be one of those specialized things you bring out in certain situations only, or a model you WANT to be cool but doesn't live up to its points like the old (or for that mater new) biovore.

I was impressed this past weekend with the Hiveguard. I didn't think they would be that good but for 150pts 6 str8 shots ap4 24inch range was a good light armour puncher.

As soon as I saw them I thought they would be great. Only down side is they are strictly trudging. No deep striking. But I think they look like a very solid option. And depending upon terrain you should be able to really take advantage of their line of sight rule.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Matt,

It's hard for me to compare the two, since I've only had a chance to skim through them.  From what I remember though, the first codex did seem a little easier to understand.  When I get the chance, I'll take another look at both.

[jhobin]

My game over the weekend against the space puppies, had me thinking that you generally do not want to engage your Tyrant with a unit with IC or Powerfist in it.

To me it seems his passive abilities are worth more than putting him in hth. I gave my Tyrant a Heavy VenomCannon and 2 Tyrant Guard with Lashwhips (only tguard I have!) and old adversay. He did more damage with his cannon and psychic ablities than he did in hth. It was either him or a zoey that dropped a predator and he knocked a unit of Thunder Cav down to BS and WS 1 with the ability even though I forgot about in the hth phase. Plus because he had 2 Tervigon's flanking him he and tervigons gave my 90 termagaunts: Counter attack, Posion, Furious Charge, Preferred Enemy, and 2 units FNP.

[jhobin]

We ran into something else, with the Hive Guard. The unit getting shot at does not get a cover save unless they are in cover. Would a Rhino poping smoke or under the influence of that SW power count as in cover? I can see either way, My inclination is no because they do not confer any benefits of cover besides the save, i.e. they do not block line of sight, etc.

[Matt Thomas]

We ran into something else, with the Hive Guard. The unit getting shot at does not get a cover save unless they are in cover. Would a Rhino poping smoke or under the influence of that SW power count as in cover? I can see either way, My inclination is no because they do not confer any benefits of cover besides the save, i.e. they do not block line of sight, etc.

I would give the smoke guys the cover save. Just on fluff. They are 'in' a smoke cloud.
RAW I don't know. Should be clarified but likely won't be.

[jhobin]

Unfortunetly, I think by RAW the Rhino would not be able to. I don't have the 'dex in front of me but I beleive the wording for the Hive guard says you only get the save if you are in cover or touching it. I think technically since the cover being provided by the rhino is given by wargear not terrain. I'm gonna take a look at the marine 'dex when I get home to read the wording.