What happens with a mis-roll?

[Benjamin]

A situation came up last night at Thursday 40k involving some dice. They should have been rolled one at a time, but three were rolled at once. In this particular case, it changed nothing. But the discussion over what to do when it would matter actually got a bit heated.

This wasn't an issue in 5th like it is now in 6th. In competitive play, if I made the mistake, I'd defer to my opponent. (Maybe the roll is acceptable to my opponent.) Another person argued the dice should just be re-rolled as they should have been rolled in the first place.

So in competitive play, what's the etiquette and expectation?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Well, I'm not clear on what happened, but generally when dice procedure mistakes are made (and they do just happen sometimes) I think it defers to a the wronged party on what they want to do, usually a re-roll.

[robpro]

If it's something like allocating penetrating/glancing hits to a vehicle squadron, there's not really a wronged party but the procedure totally matters. If you got 2 pens and rolled them at the same time (we'll say one explodes and one weapon destroyed), it really matters which order they occur in. If you rolled them both at the same time, how do you know if the weapon destroyed was allocated before the 1st vehicle was destroyed, or onto the 2nd vehicle after the first is gone? I would suggest on a 4+ it bled through, but I don't know if that's the best way to do it.

[Benjamin]

In this particular case, it applied to a squad with mixed armor saves.

Suppose three dice are rolled 1,2,5 to save on a squad with a Marine and a Terminator. Whether that save of 2 applies to the Marine or the Terminator, that's where mis-rolls became contentious.

[Typhus]

In this particular case, it applied to a squad with mixed armor saves.

Suppose three dice are rolled 1,2,5 to save on a squad with a Marine and a Terminator. Whether that save of 2 applies to the Marine or the Terminator, that's where mis-rolls became contentious.

4+ it?

[Benjamin]

4+ it?

This discussion got beyond the point of a simple 4+, because it's just such a cop-out. I mean, I could win the game with two 4+ rolls. "Let's 4+ to see who wins! Oh you don't want to do that? We'll have to 4+ that!"

Okay, overly dramatic point to illustrate 4+ doesn't really solve the problems.

[robpro]

Which model was closest to where the shots came from? It seems like there's a 2/3 chance the regular marine dies if he was closest and only a 1/3 chance the terminator dies. All you have to do is randomize it to figure out when the 1 was allocated, if you want to get tricky.

[BlankaSmash]

in a friendly game, talk it out as it has no lasting impact. (which is what sounded like happened)
in a competitive game(such as a tournament/league/etc...), talk it out and if allocation can't be fairly determined I would say all dice are re-rolled in the correct format. Technically the person who rolled all at once is at fault and has only him/her self to blame for wasting their luck

[Tharcil]

Depends on the opponent and the game. In a fun game against someone you know and respect, I would always re-roll and expect the same in return.  With what is clearly an honest mistake, a re-roll would be preferable to me...A tournament against someone I don't know could be different.  Botching the rolling on purpose when you see the results aren't favorable and asking for a re-roll would make me lean towards a 4+ determination instead of a re-roll for example. Too many variables to consider to have a cut and dry answer that covers every scenario.  For me it is a judgement call I make on the fly.

[AstartesXXVI]

Popped by here today and saw this thread, as a club figure myself it's the sort of thing that I address a lot.

The easiest thing is to not make the mistake in the first place, but that obviously isn't always plausible. What our players do much of the time, is "give it to the other guy" -- our term for accepting penance for our own mistake. So when a dice roll like the one in this thread comes up, many of our players will go ahead and say that the least favorable possible way the roll went is what happened, so to make things fair and not appear to be gaming for a free re-roll.

In response the other guy usually does the good guy gamer thing and lets the person re-roll it anyway.

The spirit of how the error is addressed, in my experience, is more important than anything.

I have heard of another interesting method at resolving this thing: simply apply the dice as if they were rolled one at a time, and consider the one the furthest left to be the first roll and work your way to the right from there.

So, for example, if the closest model that would be taking the initial saves was a marine, and you rolled 1, 2, and 5, this guy would look at where the dice physically landed and apply their results in order from the leftmost die to the rightmost die, for better or worse (i.e., the 1 applies first, killing the 3+ save model, then the 2 and 5 on the terminator).

This is a good objective way to deal with it, basically just pretend they were rolled one at a time counting the leftmost die first. We've never had to use this because of my club's general "My bad" attitude, but it has been useful for me in tournaments occasionally.