Some quick help: Typhus, Quad Guns, zombies, tally

[Mannahnin]

I doubt GW thought of the combo, but it does seem pretty clearly to work under the rules.  The rules for gun emplacements on page 105 grant permission to shoot them and to attack them in close combat.  The only way to attack in close combat is to assault it, as obviously it's not going to assault you.

Zombies can't benefit from the Tally, as they don't have the Mark of Nurgle, but they can certainly count toward the tally as they die.  Of course using zombies for this instead of regular cultists is a bad idea, as zombies have FNP and will shrug off a third of the wounds Typhus deals to the squad. 

The downsides to doing this are that you lose some cultists, and you blow Typhus' once per game Destroyer Hive, but you can get a considerable jump on your Tally.  Of course, the Tally only counts if Epidemius is on the table, and the benefits go away if your opponent manages to kill said Tallyman, so it's not necessarily a world-beating combo.   Heck, one possible counter if the Tallyman isn't on the table yet (say the Chaos player didn't get his preferred wave of Daemonic Assault) is to shoot the quad gun to death before Typhus charges it. 

[Sam]

Hey guys! I'm a guy. And I'm here to remind you that Necron scarab conga lines were legal before they weren't. There's too many funky rules interactions for GW to predict, so stuff like this happens. When enough people complain to them, they FAQ it, and then the circle of life rolls on.

For the time being, gun emplacements are totally neutral (no matter who bought them), and can be assaulted (since they're a model). So for right now, the trick works. There's a lot of things that have to go right for it to work, though, and in the meantime a good army will be focusing on winning the game, not pulling off a funny trick.

So, yeah. It's an imperfect game, as always. Not worth a fistfight.

[Achillius]

Alan in this case I believe Typgus rule is any model under the template gets hit or something like that.  He is not targeting the unit just using his special rule that places a template over his head.

Seems odd, but I'll take your word for it, sounds like I need a copy of that codex to read

Staying on point;

You place the marker with the hole on Typhus, and it specifically states that all models (friend *and foe) take the hits.  It's not really a target-able effect so its legal.

Thanks for clarification, I assume he can only do this in combat, grey knights have or had something similar if I recall correctly, of course they don't have a tally man......

[Achillius]

So, yeah. It's an imperfect game, as always. Not worth a fistfight.

You really are no fun at all.......  :p

[Sir_Prometheus]

I doubt GW thought of the combo, but it does seem pretty clearly to work under the rules.  The rules for gun emplacements on page 105 grant permission to shoot them and to attack them in close combat.  The only way to attack in close combat is to assault it, as obviously it's not going to assault you.

It's clear they can be assaulted while manned.  It's not clear that you can while they're unmanned.  But please don't interpret that as my saying it's clear that you can't.

Hey guys! I'm a guy. And I'm here to remind you that Necron scarab conga lines were legal before they weren't.

A big part of my thesis is that they should not have been legal.  That it is was so clearly against RAI, the RAW should have been ignored, and it was clear they were going to fix it via FAQ.  Which they did, in a fairly short amount of time (for GW).  My point is, why should we have to wait for GW to fix their dumb mistakes?  That was really just wasted time, playing a version of the game that was slightly dumber than it had to be. 

So for right now, the trick works

Hey man, you make the rulings.

grey knights have or had something similar if I recall correctly, of course they don't have a tally man......

Yeah, Brother Captain Stern has a variable radius power that can suck people into the warp or something if they fail a Str check, and it can affect friendlies.  You never see it because it's a dumb power and Stern offers no real advantages over a regular Grand Master or Captain. 

[Sam]

The problem with arguing about how things should be is that "should" is a matter of opinion. When you get a whole room full of people, you get lots of varying opinions. As a TO, I've always tried to cleave closely to RAW, especially since I'm not much of a tournament player myself. What I think makes sense from a "Let's play some Warball!" standpoint does not necessarily make sense to folks who play this game six times a week.

So that's the reasoning. We do the best we can, and ask that everyone just roll with it when things get sticky.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah, I get it, used to be a believer, but part of the problem is that it pretends RAW is sometimes a matter of opinion too, which it clearly is.

And like I said, sometimes I think the "should" is blindingly obvious that that should be followed instead. Conga lines were such a case, bouncing FMCs too.

In retrospection, this probably isn't in that category. But I'd count the RAI as more obvious than the RAW.

[Mannahnin]

I doubt GW thought of the combo, but it does seem pretty clearly to work under the rules.  The rules for gun emplacements on page 105 grant permission to shoot them and to attack them in close combat.  The only way to attack in close combat is to assault it, as obviously it's not going to assault you.

It's clear they can be assaulted while manned.  It's not clear that you can while they're unmanned.  But please don't interpret that as my saying it's clear that you can't.

I disagree, because the rules allowing you to assault it are independent of whether it was bought by a player or it's just neutral terrain on the battlefield.  Page 105's entry for Gun Emplacements covers them as a terrain piece; not as a purchased Fortification.  The Fortification rules just tell you that if you upgrade a bastion or aegis with a gun emplacement, it follows those terrain rules on page 105.

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On a related note, though, that new Independent FAQ rules this trick out, if you notice.  They ruled against charging a gun emplacement on its own; they only allow attacking it if you happen to be in base contact with it in the process of assaulting a unit.  Which I doubt is GW's intent, but certainly eliminates the Typhus trick.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yes, I've read pg 105, I know what it says.

I agree with the independent FAQ on this. I disagree with them on some other things. Some stuff looks like it was rulings from before related GW FAQs.

I think it's good to have such a thing, just so there's SOME ruling on SOMETHING in each case. Y'know, without bugging Sam. Or knowing ahead of time to ask.