ruling on a mule with gun mage ua

[Ed]

when the mule fires with the ua it can get "rune shot", also the mule has critical devatation. If i was to use thunderbolt does the rules stack and if so is the push movement by this d6+3d+colt+knockdown? I just dont see how it will work. If someone can make it clear to me that would great!
thanks
-Ed

[the_trooper]

when the mule fires with the ua it can get "rune shot", also the mule has critical devatation. If i was to use thunderbolt does the rules stack and if so is the push movement by this d6+3d+colt+knockdown? I just dont see how it will work. If someone can make it clear to me that would great!
thanks
-Ed

Is this where I make a non-sequitur?

On topic:
Well, when does critical devastation happen? On hit?  On Damage?
When does thunderbolt hit? On hit?  On Damage?

Post the specific rules to analyze since it's from two different armies. I took a peak at this some time ago and I believe it does stack but the wording might give it the justification you are looking for.

[Ed]

thunderbolt- Enemy models hit are pushed d3" directly away from the attacking model. on a critical hit, the enemy model is knockdown after being pushed.

rune shot- when a warjack controlled by this model makes a normal ranged attack during its activation, you can choose one attack type available to this unit to apply to the attack


critical devastation - on a critical hit , instead of suffering a normal damage roll, each model in the aoe is thrown d6" away from the attacker regardless of its base size. move the model farthest from the attacker first. the model directly hit by the attack suffers a POW 15 damage roll. Other models hit by the attack suffer a POW 8 damage roll. The POW of the collateral damage is equal to the POW of the damage roll suffered by the thrown model.

[the_trooper]

thunderbolt- Enemy models hit are pushed d3" directly away from the attacking model. on a critical hit, the enemy model is knockdown after being pushed.

rune shot- when a warjack controlled by this model makes a normal ranged attack during its activation, you can choose one attack type available to this unit to apply to the attack


critical devastation - on a critical hit , instead of suffering a normal damage roll, each model in the aoe is thrown d6" away from the attacker regardless of its base size. move the model farthest from the attacker first. the model directly hit by the attack suffers a POW 15 damage roll. Other models hit by the attack suffer a POW 8 damage roll. The POW of the collateral damage is equal to the POW of the damage roll suffered by the thrown model.

One makes a throw, the other pushes / knocks down.  Can you throw a knocked down model?

[keithb]

They are both "on hit".  What makes you think you are pushed before thrown?

[the_trooper]

Because critical devastation happens instead of damage which normally happens after something is hit?

[keithb]

You resolve all "on hit" effects, before resolving damage effects.

For example, Gallows has a "may push target d6 inches" effect that is on hit, not on damage.  So you have to do it before the damage roll.

[the_trooper]

Infernal ruling:

Infernals can and have been wrong, but not here. Critical Devastation, and anything else that says "instead of rolling damage" is resolved when you would otherwise roll damage, ie. step 10.

Also, please ask new questions in new threads. Thanks.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?65823-Mule-Critical-devastation&highlight=mule+thunderbolt

[Ed]

that thread was a fun read

[the_trooper]

Yeah, it clears it up for you?

[keithb]

Definately.  So push/knockdown first.  Then throw.  Interesting.

I believe you can throw a knocked down model.  You just can't charge/slam it.

[Ed]

I think i am going to finally drop my vanguard and pick up a mule.

I am really wondering what i can do in game, so I'm going to proxy it on Thursday.
any takers?