Fun ideas with erebus?

[GossWeapon]

So I finally got shovelface today, and I have (had) some ideas about how to make use of his special rules and justify points.

eSkarre- I feel like saying something goes good with her is like saying ice cream tastes good... But with black spot he can go run through infantry if it's tight enough together, and then even if you screw up bad enough he's sitting there.

Terminus- berserk and overtake means you feat and pretty much can take out all warriors between him and gerlak (if you take both, and really why not?)

Witch coven- some interesting thoughts, more shenanigans than combos.  On the feat turn you can infernal machine him 16" toward the enemy caster then sit there at def 14 and anything in melée has a good chance of missing and being done, or just push models to open up charge lanes for other jacks/models.

Scaverous- duh, souls, affinity... Even focus dry it's two souls which is some icing or you pay 3 to get 5 focus next turn (good to set up a feat turn). He really seems to care the least of the new warjacks about being with his caster.

Venethrax- a bit risky but you can throw 3 focus on him and soul harvest, next turn he'll either tear holes in something or be nearly invulnerable.

Overall, these new character jacks are really tailored to the new casters.  I think Erebus is a solid Jack, but not a staple by any means.  The main reason people argue him is he costs 8 points and for one more you get the seether.  A seether is the gold standard but under circumstances Erebus really outshines it, and when it comes to devastating one heavy target, the seether is much more effective.  I think he will turn out to be a solid purchase though and find home in many lists.
Anything I missed? Thoughts?

[Kuwanger23]

Pretty good write up Goss.  I agree about Terminus.  I think taking him with Mr T and Scaverous are the two obvious choices.  But he has decent stats and hits hard for a jack in general.  Just being a slayer with def 14 arm 18 for 8 points is pretty sweet.  I think I will be taking him often.  I always hated our jacks at arm 17.  If you look at them the wrong way they fall apart.  I am glad we are starting to get arm 18 options.

[jfoodmaster]

I'll only read your write up when Erebus is painted.

[jonm]

Decent thoughts on the new guy.

I agree too that the new character jacks and their respective casters share relationships that may be too symbiotic. I don't know when I'd really want Gallant outside of a Constance list. Same goes for Hypnos. Conversely when building a list with some of these casters, their character jack dwarfs the competition.

[GossWeapon]

I'll only read your write up when Erebus is painted.

he is painted, not based.

I'm not sure how reliant they all are, but they're main appeals are all geared towards their caster for sure.  I think in general they also gave us all an option for a different take on our standard jacks, like Erebus can easily replace a few slayers in a cryx list, same maybe with black Ivan, gallant, Hypnos, androcinante .

Overall, anyone think these new character jacks were better overall then the first wave (malice, triumph, scourge, torch)?  Seems like a solid debate both ways, obviously depends on faction and the list, but in general I mean.  Seems they struck a balance.  Owning Erebus and malice, I can say they seem to both fit a role.  Although malice has a lot more hype than shovelface.

[the_trooper]

In 35 points Gallant > Triumph but in 50 point lists, Triumph becomes less bad. Having a whole tool box for anti stealth, AOE and more rat is nice.  Besides, if a defender is using it's shock hammer, you probably did something wrong.

[jonm]

Reliant maybe isn't the right word, but I don't really see them being used too much without their respective caster. The affinities seem to make or break them. I don't know about this wave being better overall than the first. I think its kind of even actually.

- Triumph vs. Gallant: Tie IMHO. I think both fulfill niche roles, or really shine with relatively few casters.

- BoM vs. SoH: BoM seems to take this one because who really cares about a Vanquisher that's missing it's cannon?

- Malice vs. Erebus: Tie? Hard to say, both are really good.

- Torch vs. Ivan: Torch tales this one for me since he loses nothing for not being with his respective caster.

- Discordia vs. Hypnos: Discordia wins. Hypnos is cool with his arcnode and Sacred Ward, but Void Lock really makes him. Discordia is always awesome with its giant-ass spray and ARM buff.

- Rocinante: Winner by default.


Lastly, I don't think you've necessarily done something wrong if a Defender is using its hammer. Sometimes a few swings of the hammer (with its auto cortex damage) is great for finishing off something it softened up with its cannon.

[GossWeapon]

My weigh in:

cygnar- gallant.  He just gets way more even without the affinity so he pulls a little more ahead of triumph.

Khador- not too sure, but I think they both are very much niche jacks, but I like torch, he's pretty spunky.

On to those I actually know about:

Retribution-  Hypnos is godly with ossyan, and pitiful without, so discordia gets it for being always good.  Hypnos denies so much to stuff and has the boxes to take a few hits while locking it down, but he really is second rate without timeboy.  Discordia has sprays and some solid all around goodness which always has a solid use.

Protectorate- I think scourge wins by a long shot, just a lot of stuff for a Jack, compared to BoM who only fucntions well with thyra.  Blood of martyrs compares to molik karn, but it's with thyra only, although he is ridiculous carving through stuff. Scourge can still thresher, and has tools to hurt warjacks too making him decent on his own, and oddly enough reznik doesn't need him at all (ohher than for style points)

Cryx- I cannot believe this, and I'm sure dan will have death threats, but... Erebus wins.  From what I see and have played, people put hype behind malice because of the withershadow, but you could do that with a reaper(obviously not as cool though). But Erebus is such a pain in the ass to deal with. Def14 means if a Jack misses it's going to get pushed out of melée, plus overtake works well with a few casters.

[Kuwanger23]

ummm I have yet to play Erebus yet but I will tell you he looks decent.  The thing is with Malice, yeah he has way better synergy with the WSC but not only that he brings

A higher rat to make sure you connect with that shot

A pow 14 harpoon instead of 12 to make sure you do the damage to get the drag (how many times have I missed with pow 12?  A lot).

A soul to start at arm 18 and possibly achieve higher.

Soul taking ability

Being able to spend souls to take over jacks/character jacks (WSC combo)

He loses sustained attack and reach....seeing as you need to drag things into base to base with you due to that really dumb infernal who ruled it that way, reach all of a sudden has little use on your reaper but in some cases can be handy for sure.  

All in all I have to give this one to Malice.  He is a freaking nightmare....well not literally.  Malice wins games.  Erebus does not.  Yes I said it, Malice wins games!  I said it again.  reliably being able to turn someones jack into a seether or harrower (or some other heavy if you are on some kind of drugs) wins games.  "Hey I juust killed your 9 point model and gained a 9 point model.  Now I am going to activate it and charge it at you.  Have fun."  And it is easy to pull off.  

Don't forget Goss, Erebus' push back works against ranged as well, as it does not say melee attack just states attack.

[GossWeapon]

Yes I did.  I played half a game with Cale and an issue came up with his errants.  Is there any clarification on ther sacrificial pawn or whatever it's called?  My main concern was overtake and my confusion between the terms: boxed, disabled, and destroyed.  Obviously overtake is destroy, does the model ever hit that state, if not what does he hit? Because he does take the damage...

/shrug

On a side note my new skarlock has already gotten a caster kill against pHaley with a blood rain! Lolwut? Por que?