Author Topic: A good article to read before pre-condemning any 7th edition rules or missions  (Read 1708 times)

phasertech

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http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2014/06/11/meat-meta-banorama-coming-warhammer-40k-game/

Personally, I felt that a lot of the changes being put into place at the doubles tournament in just under 2 weeks were too much too quick, all based on theory without actually sitting down and seeing how things played out. This article pretty much highlights my own opinions very well and does a good job of pointing out that 7th edition is a very different game, even if it looks like it's "6.5th edition". I think future tournaments should work towards a 7th edition feel, use the new missions more (as it shakes things up and forces players to think more tactically than pre-plan every move and win simply for having a stronger list, as opposed to having a good synergy between list and in-game tactical ability, with a strong leaning toward tactical ability), and, if banning/changing anything, possibly look at Lords of War, as they fundamentally change the game. The advantage of moving to the new missions, however, is that a list bringing a Lord of War is likely to fall behind without very strong tactical decision-making in-game, and forces the player to pay more attention to his/her primary units than the Lord of War, which becomes a giant support piece instead of a game-winner.

An additional article that mentions how 7th is a fundamentally different game than 6th:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2014/05/29/bok-reviews-warhammer-40k-7th-edition-rules/
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 02:18:03 AM by phasertech »

Chase

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I'm not sure anyone is under the impression that the game is the same or is somehow unchanged.  I think most of us agree that it is and will be a much better edition of 40k.

This article seems to suggest that TOs everywhere should just turn a blind eye to things they know are likely to ruin the experience for the average player simply because they edition is new.  Should people play the game and think about it before screaming about it or writing about it everywhere that will listen?  Sure, but this is the internet and that's just what happens.

It's my opinion that the doubles tournament we're hosting went very light on the restrictions or changes.  We came to these conclusions very early on, had some (limited) feedback from some of the more successful players in the region, and I'm happy that some of the "big name" TOs are coming to very similar conclusions.

Outside of invisibility getting nerfed for this event, I'm not sure we've made any changes that might realistically impact anyone's 1000 point list or plan.  Nerfing invisibility was done for a reason.  Was it required?  No.  Was it a knee-jerk reaction?  Maybe.  Am I perfectly fine with it for this event?  Definitely.  We wanted this event to be as close to "by the book" 7th edition as possible.

What are the changes that you're unhappy with specifically?
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
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phasertech

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First off, I meant no insult or bad feelings at all, let me clear that up, I know my writing skills often convey hostility when there is none.

Invisibility was a kneejerk reaction, and that was one concern I had. It was not something I had considered as something I wanted personally (I often prefer codex powers as they fit the army's specific tactics better than the generics anyways), and I hadn't really payed it much attention until I heard everyone else had issues with it. Even then, my first thought was "Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs, Boom." Not to mention that Psychic powers have become far more difficult to use with the new rules, and are more difficult the more psykers you take (you have to divide up your d6 warp charges between multiple psykers, and since on average, you need 2 charges to use a warp charge 1 power reliably, 4 for WC2, and 6 for 3, you really do NEED those extra dice, or to spend money on mastery levels you're only going to use for dice). In terms of applying the psychic rules to the doubles setting, I think you guys did a good job, as essentially you are trying to make a single player's list, so it should be treated as such.

Whew, now that I got the psychic rant out of the way....

Two other issues

The first, I can't say for sure because I don't know what the missions are for the tournament, but I recall talking with you and Sam about it and I believe it was Sam who mentioned throwing in a Maelstrom of War mission. IMHO, despite the difficulties of running Maelstrom without cards, I do think it should be the new standard mission, as it does shake up the meta and forces players to think on their feet, rather than rely on ironclad lists. It also helps bring Lords of War into line, since taking one reduces your capability to take objectives in multiple ways. Sure, the randomness *feels* like it can screw you over. Erin and I played a test game with the mission the other day and it seemed like she was getting shit cards, but in the end of the game she only lost due to an unlucky armor save roll to boardwipe. She had, I think, twice the VP I did.

The second, a rather controversial topic, is Force Organization. I even admit to freaking the heck out when I heard about Unbound armies, but the drawbacks of Unbound somewhat balance it out. Even against a 10-riptide list (I'm certain I'm not the only one who immediately thought of this), a well-played Battle-forged list can hug cover and just sit on objectives. Granted, it's not as much fun, but in the end the Battle-forged list has more than a chance at winning. The same applies to limiting the number of detachments, especially since there's already a built-in limit of having to take 2troop 1hq. Granted, I immediately thought about cultist/sorcerer mass horde builds for daemon engines, but the daemon engine tactic is a poor list to begin with due to the changes to Psychic powers (6 dice per power? no thank you). I'm glad you guys are open to multi-detachment (as each team is bringing 2-4 detachments as a single army essentially), I just don't understand why there's the cap at 4 detachments per team.

Geez, that was longer than I intended. That's the gist of it, no ill will intended of course, just my 2 cents... or dollars. x_X

robpro

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"Then people moved on, trying to find ways to cap Warp Charges, because Eldar and other psychic armies couldn't have their own fun, easily forgetting, generating powers has become harder, and not as spamable. If that wasn't enough many have moved on to attacking powers specifically, namely Invisibility, touting it as the most broken power of all time, once again forgetting the creative ways to get around it."

This guy's sentences give me a headache.

Ian Mulligan

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"Then people moved on, trying to find ways to cap Warp Charges, because Eldar and other psychic armies couldn't have their own fun, easily forgetting, generating powers has become harder, and not as spamable. If that wasn't enough many have moved on to attacking powers specifically, namely Invisibility, touting it as the most broken power of all time, once again forgetting the creative ways to get around it."

This guy's sentences give me a headache.

PUT THE COMMA DOWN, SIR. WE DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYONE GET HURT
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