Some interesting rules on Lords of War, right from GW... sort of.

[Chase]

So Horus Heresy volume II went is this direction:



Page 162.

[MM3791]

That makes sense, at 2000 points people can also access double FOC. So the 1850  tourney standard will be limited to 1 FOC and no LOW, but anything after 2000  and anything goes, no holds barred. Looks good if I'm reading it correctly

[PhoenixFire]

makes sense to me, even at the 2500pt level an opponent may not have the tools to take down a 900pt lord of war.

the question is Chase are you adding this rule to the event on the 25th? Personally i think you should since the event is only 2 days old and it would even out the playing field a bit but you're the TO.

[Chase]

Nah.  I want all the crazy stuff to come out, one way or another.

This is more for discussion right now.

[robpro]

Nah.  I want all the crazy stuff to come out, one way or another.

This is more for discussion right now.

If you -really- want all the crazy stuff, will you let my team combine its points to bring one Phantom Titan?

[MM3791]

makes sense to me, even at the 2500pt level an opponent may not have the tools to take down a 900pt lord of war.

In a 2500 point list, a 900 point LoW would leave a player only 600 points to spend on an HQ and about 2-3 troop choices. If nothing else you can kill the troops and then your opponent has nothing to score with.. but I don't think we need to discuss this much further, since everyone beat that horse to death all December long 

[Chase]

Nah.  I want all the crazy stuff to come out, one way or another.

This is more for discussion right now.

If you -really- want all the crazy stuff, will you let my team combine its points to bring one Phantom Titan?

I suppose I don't want to get that crazy. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

Nah.  I want all the crazy stuff to come out, one way or another.

Why?

[Chase]

This may be impossible for you to understand, Matt, but some people find things interesting and fun that others don't.

[Benjamin]

It's not about fun.

[Typhus]

Well, keep in mind that in Horus Heresy, the Lords of War are

Imperial Super Heavy Tank or Detachment (1-3 SH Tanks/Walkers of up to 3 Structure Points Each)
Single Titan
Single Imperial Super Heavy Flyer
A squadron of 1-3 Imperial Navy Flyers (imperial armor aeronautica)
1-3 Ordo Reductor War Engines
Primarch of the Legion used as the force's primary detachment

I don't think it's a good comparison to use the rules outlined for HH "Lords of War", and the 40k "Lords of War" because the rulesets are completely different.  The average super heavy tank in HH is 350 points and get get ludicrous upgrades (like being immune to melta, or having a shield in the front that reduces the strength of shooting attacks by -2).  Average super heavy tank for 40k LOW is around 500/600 and get none of those.

Primarchs run between 300-500 and depending on who you take, they are unstoppable death machines.

So the 25% limit fits well with what they have listed in HH.  I don't see it working well for 40k.

"makes sense to me, even at the 2500pt level an opponent may not have the tools to take down a 900pt lord of war. "

No, at 2500, the max you can take for a LOW is 625 points.  You would need to play a 3600 point game to get a 900 point LOW, and at that point, you might as well just be playing Apocalypse.

[Ian Mulligan]

Waitasec waitasec. So you're telling me that one person's preferences do not necessarily dictate those of a larger group? Even if those preferences are stated very loudly and unceasingly?

Shit. What have I been doing with my life.

[PhoenixFire]

"makes sense to me, even at the 2500pt level an opponent may not have the tools to take down a 900pt lord of war. "

No, at 2500, the max you can take for a LOW is 625 points.  You would need to play a 3600 point game to get a 900 point LOW, and at that point, you might as well just be playing Apocalypse.

that's the point i was trying to make that at the 2500pt level for this upcoming doubles event on the 25th it's legal to bring a 900pt lord of war while per this book the max legal is 625.

No destroyer weapons for this event helps "the balance" but there are other broken things out there that don't rely on D weapons like the nigh unkillable greater daemons, the one for 999 points is particularly scary.

You bring up a good point about HH lords of war vs 40k but going forward i would hope this rule is adopted for 40k games allowing lords of war

[Typhus]

You bring up a good point about HH lords of war vs 40k but going forward i would hope this rule is adopted for 40k games allowing lords of war

I don't see how.  Standard GT's are 1850, so 25% would be...460ish points?  Nothing out of Escalation/FW updates is that cheap.  You'd have to climb back up points-wise, and that's not the direction competitive GT's have been going the past year - 1850 has become the standard and I doubt people are going to want to change to bring some giant robot.

Escalation is fine *on its own in a one off game/friendly*.  Allowing Lords of War in a tournament just unbalances the game, and as well makes one hell of a headache for TO's.

[AstartesXXVI]

I wouldn't take anything Forge World does as a good standard. I think Lords of War that don't have Strength D are much less of an issue.

I honestly think this is a good opportunity to theme events one way or another. At our club I am trying to codify "Core" versus "Expanded" 40k so that we can have some events that use one way and other events that use another.