Double Force Org at 2000+ Points?

[the_trooper]

It's a good thing that FW is so shunned because it actually helps old armies. You know with underpowered but overcosted flier options.

But Grey Knight bikers get to come back in this so that's a plus.

Until the new CSM codex, I suppose it's allies or (static) aegis defence lines to help it..

[Sir_Prometheus]

FW has Grey Knight bikers?  Where?

[the_trooper]

FW has Grey Knight bikers?  Where?

Separate thoughts.  FW doesn't have GK bikers, they are just some awful conversion I saw years ago.

[Sir_Prometheus]

.......Was it me?  Cuz I have GK bikers, that I converted, and a GK Landspeeder.

 

[Chase]

I could be wrong and change my mind a year from now, but frankly I love the idea of a double FO, I've hopes that it will get rid of the same lists popping up all over, and exponentially (with allies) increases the number of competitive lists out there. As for being a superior general, I'm hoping that will be even more important!

We'll see in the long run, how it works out.

Cheers,
Alan

In a lot of respects, this is exactly the line of thinking that keeps the Legacy format in Magic changing constantly.  With so many potential combinations and incredibly high power levels the game, over a period of time, keeps itself in check.  The same 15ish "themes" are always present, but the decks (lists) change from time to time to handle the various wings in metagame.  There is always a "best deck" for the given tournament and it's typically piloted by one of the best players (or clubs or teams).  This is probably not a coincidence.

The (huge) difference is that Magic plays a lot faster and gets played on a massive scale all of the time.

You guys can take from that whatever you'd like.

[Banosby]

I'd love if that happens, but I'm worried these changes will have the opposite effect. But worried doesn't equal convinced; call me...cautiously pessimistic.

One way this could play out is that with more possible armies (more FOC options, allies, etcetera), there are more competitive lists and people take lists from this expanded list of competitive lists.

Another way it could play out is that the 'tip' of the competitive curve actually shrinks, as the more options allow for a few, and only a few, 'broken' lists. Shortly, everyone has either a version of these lists, or lists specifically built to counter them.

My prediction, which is no doubt woefully inaccurate, is that 'soft' GTs, such as Mechanicon (which I love!), will see a wider variety of lists, while 'hard' GTs, such as Battle for Salvation (also love!) are going to be 50 copies of Air Force lists (or Nob Bikers, or whatever shakes out as 'good').

Which, on reflection, isn't all that different than 5th.

[Chase]

For the record, I think it will would end up being degenerate in competitive 40k environments.

I would imagine it's debatable whether or not that "matters" at the highest of high end competition, but that's not us (for the most part).

[Benjamin]

Honestly, I feel part of the reason the Magic scenario wouldn't happen with 40k goes to the very essence of the brands. Magic has clear rules and 40k doesn't. Magic writers design with competition in mind, while 40k writers dismiss the idea entirely. Magic has bothered to create a universal format for Legacy in which nearly everything goes. 40k struggles with a universal format for the game proper.

Now, if there was a format in which players could use any old codex, past editions, that'd be something awesome.  I all too often hear the laments from players, how much fun they had running their armies back in the day, before all the new-fangled changes. It's that same sentiment Wizards of the Coast has harnessed in Legacy.