Harkevich Discussion

[Ian Mulligan]

To avoid threadjacking the Wrath one...

Fuck Cryx. I tried to play a 50 point game with the following list.

Harkevich
*Behemoth
*Beast 09
*Destroyer
10 Winterguard
*Officer and Standard Bearer
* 1 Rocketeer
4 Battle Mechanics
Kovnik Jozef
Greylord Ternions
Koldun Lord
eEiryss

Guess who I got to play? eGaspy. A warwitch siren and pistol wraith took out my Behemoth and Destroyer for the game. I managed to get a fully loaded Beast 09 into base with the Lich Lord, but I rolled poorly and he was left with 1 hit box left. Then LOL FEAT and the game was done.

Uhg. The list seems fine, but I'd never in a million years choose it against that army. Having that many models effectively removed from the game really sucked. I played a second game, again against cryx, and I feel like this can work. eGaspy seems like my worst possible match up due to all the Dark Shrouds and weapon masters floating around.



So, after 3 games with the Bearded One, I think the Ternion is going to get dropped. I initially included them for their ability to reduce defense but mainly as additional magic attacks. Their spray is superfluous because of the Winterguard's Grape Shot ability. As overkill as Harm may be with the army, the ability to hand out magic weapons to bombards and the Death Star probably makes Aiyana and Holt more important than the Greylords. With 3 bombards, a lucky Harm may actually make ranged assassination possible.

I ran into a bunch of cloud effects, too. I was less than happy. With the amount of shooting I have that get's cock blocked by those things, it may actually be worth downgrading Beast 09 to a Spriggan. Flare will make my bombards harder to hide from. The additional Rocketeer the switch provides will be decent, too. Losing Thresher isn't so cool, but I think the list can survive.

I definitely can't wait for Black Ivan. Those free boosts will be VERY welcome. I almost never have enough focus to do what I want each turn.

Here's what I think I'll try next:

Harkevich
*Behemoth
*Spriggan
*Destroyer
10 Winterguard
*Officer and Standard Bearer
* 2 Rocketeers
4 Battle Mechanics
Kovnik Jozef
Aiyana and Holt
Koldun Lord
eEiryss

[GossWeapon]

You can drop mechanics to make the destroyer beast 09 or Ivan (idk ivan's point cost) otherwise seems fit.  Spriggans are pretty popular on the Internet so, I think you're good.  Another idea might be marshaling a Jack. Idk if you got a decent jm or not... Just throwing some ideas. 

[Ian Mulligan]

Regarding dropping mechanics: Making the Destroyer Beast 09 leaves me with one ranged 'jack in a ranged specialist's battlegroup. Not so great. Also, Black Ivan is not released. When he is, I expect to drop a single Rocketeer to upgrade my Destroyer.

Marshalling 'jacks would be amazing if Harkevich's abilities were auras. They are not. to get pathfinder, +2" move, the feat, and Broadsides, the 'jack must be in his battlegroup.

[GossWeapon]

Right but does the spriggans get enough from him that it's worth not giving more focus to Ivan (when out) and the behemoth? It seems like harkevich often found himself light on the focus he needed to do all he wanted/needed to each turn. I know you lose escort and pathfinder, but you save focus. Just an idea.

I guess the mechanics are ok if there's nothing else you want... I think more playtesting and against other factions will tell whether or not it is always true, since they're only food when you're losing, but they also fix crucial systems.  Time will tell.

At least I don't have to debate bloodgorgers or witches anymore.

[Ian Mulligan]

Pathfinder and more movement vs a pseudo focus isn't even a debate. Additionally, the +3 ARM and free charge from the feat cannot be ignored.

Battle Mechaniks will prove their worth. The only reason my Behemoth didn't get repaired and trample all the banes that failed to kill it was Deathchill. I hardly think that one situation rules them out like you have.

[GossWeapon]

I dont know then, have another khador player give advice then.  If you wanted to post your ideas and not have to hear other ideas then just put it on your blog.  You asked for ideas and options. I'm the only one who has seen the list so far in action so it would stand that I would have the best idea of how things worked compared to theory machine.  Every faction for the most part has access to the things I used against you in some form, to a greater or lesser extent. 

My opinion would be to keep the core of the list, make the destroyer Ivan(proxy a playtesting) and then play with all of the other points. What you dont need is anti infantry or heavy.  You need to have tricks and ways to counter opponents tricks, which there is slim pickings of in the faction.  Valachev is a nice tool box for a few matchups, but between him and the obvious units he works with, that is all your points right there for one model that a serious opponent will pick off first chance they have.

I guess it really comes down to how you place your army and knowing what needs to be done to win attrition, but I don't need to tell you that at all. 

Maybe you just need a unit that can hunt down the toolbox units and take them out before they eliminate 30 points of your army the whole game. I think you get the idea.

Maybe someone else can post so it's not just two people with opposing cries arguing back and forth too.

[Ian Mulligan]

Discussion is fine and what I was looking for. Its just hard to be anything but dismissive over removing models from the battlegroup or the effectiveness of battle mechaniks with so many 'jacks important to the game plan.

I definiterly want a unit that can hunt problems, but I need to test out this list before making any more alterations, even if Kell or Kossites are starting to sound appealing.

[the_trooper]

As a person that played against his list twice with a "balanced" list vs. sole assassination list,

I keep looking at the ham-master and want him to be more melee and not ranged.  He has one spell that is specifically for ranged.  Broadside.  Is it awesome?  Yes.  Is it worth tailoring a list toward?  Dunno.

His feat, pathfinder, Fortune, escort, jump start all add to his ability to put you jacks in your opponent's army.

I suppose you could use all that mobility and boosting to get into position and just shoot.

If I come down today, please try a melee jack list with him against me.

[GossWeapon]

eGaspy is balanced to near perfection, there's not many problems he can't handle in spades, other than harbinger or old witch really.  I'd say sorsha but her feat is easy to see coming and hide behind, especially with 3 clouds on demand.

[jonm]

I feel like the best things to use with Harkevich haven't come out yet. Namely Ivan, the Demolisher and the Bombardiers. And Sylys.

I was thinking of doing this with him eventually...


- Harkevich (+5jp)
^ Black Ivan (10) - 5
^ Demolisher (9) - 9
^ Sylys - 2
- Full Bombardiers - 11
- Widowmakers - 4
- Widowmaker Marksman - 2
- Gorman - 2

35


- Harkevich (+5jp)
^ Black Ivan (10) - 5
^ Spriggan (10) - 10
^ Demolisher (9) - 9
^ Sylys - 2
- Full Bombardiers - 11
- Joe - 2
- Full Rifle Corps - 8
- eEiryss - 3

50



As for eGaspy being "balanced perfectly" I think that's a stretch. Despite the nerf to his feat he's still a gaping asshole. I'd also throw in both Haleys as both shut him down pretty easily.

[Ian Mulligan]

I played a few more games today.

I played against Rick's trolls, which had a large number of <15 armor guys and a bunch of DEF 12 beasts. Broadsides was excellent the entire game, eventually winning it for me by assisting in raining down 9 shots on Grim Angus.

The second game was against Rich's pStryker army. He blew his feat early to turn off all my bombards for a turn and then demolished my winter guard, but on feat turn I scrapped a 'jack, took out Ol' Rowdy's hammer, and ruined a Stormblade unit. We had to call it on time, but I felt like the game was pretty much going to end in my favor considering he had two ARM 24 heavies in his face.

I had to work HARD for these. At the end of each, I felt the lack of Black Ivan, especially. I'm starting to feel like a fool playing with him right now. Once the Demolisher is out, the whole approach changes. AND I think the strategy at the core of that list will be better than what I'm doing now, even with Ivan. Uhg. Stupid Harkevich. Stop being so cool.

[jonm]

The more I mess around in iBodger the more I feel like these new jacks want their caster and vice versa. There's just so much synergy.

Also, Harkevich might have the best story for a caster in Wrath. I've yet to make my way through all the fluff, but his dealings with Reznik are pretty sweet. The dude is pretty damn noble. It's funny how fluff can supersede rules sometimes when it comes to wanting to play stuff.

[Ian Mulligan]

Probably 70% of why I want to play him is his story. Its so nice to see someone who actually cares about the people of Khador rather than the state.

Hilariously, I had my Winter Guard stand in front of my 'jacks and absorb a charge from Ol' Rowdy and a Stormclad my last game with Harkevich...