Grey Knights more like.... Well you get the idea. A Chaos Daemons discussion

[Chase]

What does MSU mean?

[Ian Mulligan]

Multiple small units.

[Benjamin]

So Ian, with that, we're looking at...

HQ
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorcery - 100
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorcery - 100
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorcery - 100
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorcery - 100

Elite
Fiends of Slaanesh x6 - 180
Fiends of Slaanesh x6 - 180
Fiends of Slaanesh x6 - 180

Heavy
Daemon Prince, MoT, BoT - 140
Daemon Prince, MoT, BoT - 140
Daemon Prince, MoT, BoT - 140

That's 1360 of 1850.

Then?

Troops
Plaguebearers x6, Icon - 115
Plaguebearers x6, Icon - 115
Plaguebearers x6 - 90
Plaguebearers x6 - 90
Plaguebearers x5 - 75

1845.


Does that look about right?

What's the strategy?

I would agree that conceding the mid-field against GK is sound. What I envision that might work is Daemons hammering the GK on one side of the board until the GK have no choice but to wheel around, at which point Daemons can drop in the backfield.

The Plaguebearers can land ahead of the Fiends to help give the Fiends cover. I'm of the opinion that the Fiends are more valuable than the Daemon Princes, so the DPs can land in front of the Fiends to grant cover if necessary. Otherwise, I picture the chariots and DPs on the flank causing trouble. That all sound about right to you?

[Ian Mulligan]

I have to admit that I really don't know exactly how this should all come together. I'm much more comfortable discussing which units are effective. I'll leave the rest to you more experienced daemon players. Anyway, here are some more thoughts.

My gut says 4 heralds may be too many. 2 or 3 with an additional anti-infantry attack would probably do better.

I'm not sure what the optimal DP load out should be.

That's a lot of plague bearers. A few small Horror squads could be threatening and draw fire from the more important units, while still being effective if ignored.

I think this is definitely heading towards something good, though.


EDIT: Unholy Strength on the Fiends would be useful, too. Poppin' armor like champs.

[Benjamin]

Only one Fiend model would get the Unholy Might upgrade, but I see your point. When the Fiends hit, they need to kill as much as possible. Giving one model twice the chance to pen has to be win.

I love the Chariot of Slaanesh for its cheap cost and amazing flexibility. It can handle vehicles and infantry. I imagine Bill might have a kind word or two for Khorne heralds.

Daemon Princes are tricky, because their upgrades are so damn expensive. Most of what's shooting them is invulnerable so MoT for 4+ invuln is good. Considering Psybolt bolters wounding on 4+, that's not something I look forward to. I like the bolt princes, but Nurgle princes would last marginally longer.

With some tweaks...

HQ
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt, Master of Sorcery - 100
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, BoT, Master of Sorcery - 100
Herald of Slaanesh, Chariot, Unholy Might - 75
Herald of Slaanesh, Chariot, Unholy Might - 75

Elite
Fiends of Slaanesh x6, UM - 190
Fiends of Slaanesh x6, UM - 190
Fiends of Slaanesh x6, UM - 190

Troops
Plaguebearers x6, Icon - 115
Plaguebearers x6, Icon - 115
Plaguebearers x6 - 90
Pink Horrors x4 & Changeling, BoT - 100
Pink Horrors x5, BoT - 95

Heavy
Daemon Prince, MoT, BoT - 140
Daemon Prince, MoT, BoT - 140
Daemon Prince, MoT, BoT - 140

1830


This list doesn't appear to be dissimilar from other popular Daemon lists.

Another idea is to swap a Bolt Prince for two Screamer x5 squads (80 points). That's bring the list to an even 1850. I'm not crazy about Screamers myself, as I can never get them to work properly.

[Ian Mulligan]

Screamers aren't totally terrible. They can provide cover, harass vehicles, and stop obnoxious tank shocks.

[Benjamin]

Screamers aren't totally terrible. They can provide cover, harass vehicles, and stop obnoxious tank shocks.

They're also great for last-minute objective-stealing shenanigans. They're so cheap, it's hard to resist them.

[Ed]

horrors suck would anyone like to buy some horrors?
i think breath of chaos is the best bet with bolt princes you'd have to show them it would be a bad idea to leave their razorback i use razorback cause i think they are the best but it could be a other transport.
freinds are gonna suck CC is not wanted at all FLAMERS in caps see where im going with this breath and bolt in large numbers.

[Bill]

This all looks like good stuff to me. Horrors are always handy to have if for nothing other than the 5 pt changeling. Bs3 bolt does suck though. Even of you fill all 6 slots you only get 3 hits.

[Benjamin]

This all looks like good stuff to me. Horrors are always handy to have if for nothing other than the 5 pt changeling. Bs3 bolt does suck though. Even of you fill all 6 slots you only get 3 hits.

I noticed that the Changeling is marginally better against GKs, because of their marginally lower LD across the board. Turning some of that GK firepower on itself would be boss.

[GossWeapon]

I would say drop it back to plaguebearer spam, but keep one unit of horrors with the changeling and bolt.  Chariots are a solid.  Nurgle princes are ok, but theyre more of a close combat MC, and thats not what you want to have against grey knights, although wounding on a 2+ is pretty awesome to do.  Also, no fateweaver?  I thought the interwebs didn't allow daemons without fateweaver.

[Benjamin]

I would say drop it back to plaguebearer spam, but keep one unit of horrors with the changeling and bolt.  Chariots are a solid.  Nurgle princes are ok, but theyre more of a close combat MC, and thats not what you want to have against grey knights, although wounding on a 2+ is pretty awesome to do.  Also, no fateweaver?  I thought the interwebs didn't allow daemons without fateweaver.

Then you're not up on your interwebs! Competitive Daemon lists generally don't have Fateweaver. Too many points, and fairly easy to manage with volume of fire and/or tank shock. Or by not shooting at him, at all. Which is harder for me to do? Succeed on a 5+ invul re-roll or a 3+? I keep bringing Fateweaver around until I get the models I actually want to run. He's fun, he's different, but he also demands units within a 6" bubble, which presents the choice of being better defensively or going where I need to go.

Effective Nurgle Princes get very expensive, very quick. The volume of GK Str 5 fire makes T6 not as awesome.