So.... 8th edition...

[Poo the Great]

So I'm just curious now, I've flipped through the book, and read up on the new rules, and I'm curious as to what other people think of it.

I myself am not too crazy for it, but I'm going to give it a solid try and determine after a couple of games whether or not I like it.

The thinkgs I'm not crazy about...

Initiative Order Combat
Skirmishers Getting Nerfed
Random Charge Distances
Pre-Measuring
Percentage Based Army List
Two Rank Fighting System/Step Up Rule
Random Power/Dispel Pool (sorta)
Magic Becoming Insane (though I do like what they did with the lores, some of the spells are a little insane)
Any Strength being able to affect any Toughness (Str 1 can hurt T10? come on)
Fear and Terror no longer a thing to think twice about

It seems like they took a few rules from the 40k book, brought it into the fantasy world and tried making them a similiar game to bring in more of a crowd. I believed that Fantasy was more fun because it was more difficult to master, it required a lot more concentration to play and really required the person to think two steps ahead. Some of the armies have to be completely revamped to keep up with their rules, or have been underpowered/overpowered a lot

Such as for my wood elves, I don't know why I wouldn't field anything but units of 5x2 glade guard, I can move and shoot without penalty and shoot 2 ranks deep, my shots go up to str 4 at short range and i can outmanuever most armies. Wheres the fun in playing 40k with longbows?

I think I might just be an old fart and stick to 7th....

At least thats my opinion... What does anyone else think?

Please note that I said I'm going to play it for a couple of games before truly making my decision!

[Opforce3]

alot of the issues i've read about so far are there to counter another change they've made, such as the pre-measuring thing countering the random charge distances. the game seems alot more about killing your opponents units instead of making them run from fear, straight up combat resolution, or essentially anything non-killing related. there are about 3x as many special rules now. virtually everything references a special rule, which i don't like. for example, if i remember correctly (and going off memory), a great weapon, instead of being simply defined as always striking last and giving +2 strength, has the special rules "always strikes last" and "+ 2 strength" which makes you have to further reference other sections of the book. this is a bit more thorough than previous editions, but it's often unnecesary. i'm also not a huge fan, but i'll give it a shot.

[Tim the Swift]

I would like to give it a try. Some things sound interesting and other things sound ridiculous. It looks like games are going to be a lot shorter because more models can fight and shoot at any given time. Melee combats are almost guaranteed to be over in 1 round, you can shoot in 2 ranks, and magic seems more powerful. I think they replaced a lot of strategy with luck as well.

[skavengear]

isnt it odd the same armies that were "overpowered" before are just getting better and the "weaker armies" got pretty much weaker? you would think that they would have tried to make stuff like daemons more at the same level as other armies, it seems almost like gw tries to keep the same armies on top in every edition, at least in 40k the older armies get new books when they no longer pose a threat to the top armies.

[Poo the Great]

Yes and No on the overpower chart, most definitly some armies have gotten only better, Warriors of Chaos, Daemons, but certain armies are greatly hampered by the new magic phase, mainly Vampire Counts, with a 50% chance to fail a casting on a single regardless of modifiers and with no longer being able to cast a spell after if you've failed casting one previously, an army could actually kill the zombies faster than they can be brought back, which I'm certainly not complaining about.

They are definitly going more towards rank and file troops, and combat res as Tim as said is going to be through the roof, especially with elite troops like Swordmasters, Chosen Chaos, and any other unit that puts out an insane amount of attacks.

[Leigh]

Having started playing this game with 5th edition Skaven (Ravening Hordes rules) and 6th edition BRB, I'm looking at some of the changes I've read online and thinking this is probably going to be the best version of Fantasy yet.  They seem to have fixed quite a few of the gripes that people had about the realistic aspects of the game, and found interesting ways to balance out the magic and combat phases.

Magic lores have reportedly gotten pretty strong, but it also sounds like defending against it isn't based around the necessity to take the obligatory scroll caddy that is generally useless after turn 2.  This makes those additional points for characters more valuable and taking 2 casters vs. 4 probably isn't going to buy you anything like it has in the past.  Unless I'm missing something (which I might, haven't actually read the book yet).

Shifting combat to make damage done relatively more important is a nice touch to limiting the magic phase by making those hitty characters more meaningful.  It also means that cheapo units of skaven slaves are not as likely to break a unit worth 10 times their value simply by getting a flank charge.  A unit of 30 Chaos Warriors SHOULD be able to hold against slaves in both front and flank, but all too often they didn't.  I think the added +1 CR for charge still keeps a bit of that tactical importance in place and balances out the change to order based on Init.

Overall, I'm think that I'll finally be buying the new Daemon book to play some games in 8th edition.  I might even get some more Plague Beasts (Riders for me...) painted up to field a unit of 6, maybe 5 with a herald if I can mount one.  I'm not entirely sure.

But yeah, the changes to magic help make my characters more effictive in both magic (historically a points dump for a Daemon Prince) and the changes to combat mean my elite troops will be more likely to hold their own.  Yep, very interested to get some games sometime soon.

I seriously doubt that the loss of auto-breaking is going to make Fear any less important too.  I can't wait to see someone wind up with a WS1 hero against a herald!  Or HE Swordmasters against Bloodletters!  I'm dancing just thinking about it!

[Tim the Swift]

I see your point, but the big things I don't like are the pre-measuring, random charge distances, and two rank fighting. In terms of realism, during a heated battle you wouldn't have the luxury of knowing if you could reach someone by taking your sweet time and measuring then deciding if you were going to shoot, or charge, or not, and then if you know you are out of range you can just choose a different target and do it again. That takes out some skill which I think should still be in the game. With random charge distances, the way I understand it is you roll 2d6 and add your movement to see if you make it or not. So if I get this right, a unit of dwarves could charge up to 15"! A unit of cold one cavalry in 7th. edition could only charge 14"! No dwarf should be that fast. Finally with two rank fighting, it is not going to matter how awesome or brave your unit is suppose to be with leadership 9 or 10 if you lose combat by 15! I play High Elves and I love Swordmasters, but I don't want to roll literally 21 dice when they get into combat. My hands are not big enough and there usually isn't enough room on the table to roll all of those dice at once.

I am going to call 8th. edition Bumper Hammer because all units on the table are going to be flying around the board in random directions as soon as they smash into each other just like bumper cars because combats are going to be over so fast and be so one sided that no one is going to be in the same spot twice for more than one combat phase! I like long gritty combats that are won by wearing the opponent down while withstanding their attacks, not by rolling a metric ton of dice before the other guy does. I still do want to give 8th. edition a try though.

[Leigh]

Premeasuring is a massive change to game mechanics, I totally get not liking it.  I remember calling people on sloppy moves and sneaky pre-measures way back when.  Those issues with game mechanics are now fixed.  The random charge moves fit with premeasuring also, and to be truthful I think totally fit in with the realism aspect of the overall game mechanics.

When a general sent a force onto the battlefield, does anyone really expect that the left and right flanks moved at exactly the same speed?  Or that flanking manuevers never went belly-up when they found that the men meant to be already engaged were still on their way to the fight?

I can't say I love the random charge distance, but considering the fact that you are no longer gaining that first-strike advantage I don't see the issue.  And any general declaring a charge and hoping to roll a 12 is going to find that tactic decidely lacking.  I think the positives (like marching within 8" after a Ld check) will totally outweigh the "negatives".

And BTW, I think you are the first person I've ever heard complain about getting too many attacks.  If we ever play and you don't want some of them, I'd be happy to roll them for you, on my armies behalf of course!  Rolling a pile of dice turns me into a kid in a candy shop!

[Tim the Swift]

Ha ha! I never thought I would complain about too many attacks either! I just need to start working out so I can lift all those dice at once! I feel it is just unnecessary.