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Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Chase on October 21, 2012, 01:25:46 AM

Title: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on October 21, 2012, 01:25:46 AM
      (http://www.battlegroundgames.com/images/forum/battleground_blktext_clearbkgrd.png)


Battleground Games & Hobbies in Plainville MA



*This event will be the LAST in a series of Battleground 40k Invitational Qualifier Tournaments.  The Invitational will take place January 5th, 2013.*


Battleground is supremely concerned with keeping our Doubles tournaments fun, casual and appealing to all kinds of players and hobbyists.  With that said, we understand that by definition a tournament is competitive and we DO want that as well.  Due to the popularity of these events, we have altered the prize structure such that a larger percentage of the players involved receive prizes based on their accomplishments.  The awards are listed below.



Format: Doubles (2v2) 1000 points per person (no detachments)
Date: November 17th, 2012 a Saturday
Time: Please be here no later than 10:15am. Set up at 10:45am. Dice roll no later than 11:00am.
Entrance Fee: $20.00 per person / $40.00 per team


Address:
25 Taunton Street
Plainville MA 02762
508.316.1195

Find us on Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/dovyu)

Check out our Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Abington-MA/Battleground-Games-Hobbies/68808440618)


Contact:
Please contact me at ChaseLaq@gmail.com to sign up if and only if you and your partner can commit to playing on November 17th. If you need help finding a partner please post here.




RULES FOR WARHAMMER 40K TOURNAMENT

This event will be capped at 30 teams.

Rule Books:
The Warhammer 40,000 SIXTH Edition Rules will be used.

The following is a list of legal army choices:
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Necrons
Codex: Orks
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Tau Empire
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf)




MODELS AND POINTS:

1. Each player must bring an army consisting of 1000 points or fewer (975 min), in accordance with these rules. Each team will consist of two players fighting together.  Players will treat their teammate's army as "Allies of Convenience" at all times, for all reasons.  Allied detachments are NOT allowed in this event.

The Force Organization Chart will be split up into two parts as follows:

(Each team must take)
0-1 Bastion

(Each player must take)
1 HQ
0-1 Elites
2-3 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack
0-1 Heavy Support
0-1 Defense Line

In addition, the two players on a team share three ‘floating’ selections, one each in Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. Either player may use up to two of these floating slots, but may not use the same slot as their partner. For example, Player A takes a second Elites choice and a second Heavy Support choice. This means their partner, Player B, may take a second Fast Attack choice as the third floating slot.

An exception to this is the mandatory choices for some armies. For example: "You must take this HQ at this many points." Those choices are allowed outside of these restrictions. Ex. Space Wolves.

2. All models must follow “What You See Is What You Get” (WYSIWYG). All weapons, war gear, and so forth must be represented on the model.

3. Pictures of conversions or "counts as" models must be emailed to the Tournament Organizer unless they have previously been approved.

4. Warlord Traits - Warlord Traits will no be used in this event.

5. Psychic Powers - At the start of each game, before deployment, players will be allowed to pick their discipline and roll on the corresponding chart to determine their power.

6. Unfortunately, Forge World Imperial Armor units (and army lists) may NOT be used in this event.  Forge world models may be used where appropriate, however.

7. For this event players will treat their teammates army as "Allies of Convenience" at all times for all reasons.

8. We will require that each player submits his army list to a Battleground Tournament Organizer on or before Monday, November 12th (roughly a week before the event). We ask that players email their lists to ChaseLaq@gmail.com as soon as they are finalized. We are going to do our best to check every list before the event begins.

9. If illegal units or other rules violations are found in a player’s army list, at a minimum, the models in violation will be removed from all subsequent play. In addition, tournament points may be deducted and/or award eligibility may be forfeited. If in doubt, please ask for clarification in advance from a Battleground Tournament Organizer.

10. Restrictions:

       â€¢ This event will not use "Mysterious Terrain" (p.102-103).
       â€¢ This event will not use "Archotech Artefacts" (p 106).
       â€¢ This event will not use "Unique Terrain" (p. 107).
       â€¢ This event will not allow The Fortress of Redemption.
       â€¢ This event will not allow Skyshield Landing Pads.


The scenarios we will be using for the event will be announced once they near completion.




HOW THE TOURNAMENT WORKS:

• Competitors will participate in three (3) games over the course of the day. In each game, you will play a scenario and record the outcome of the battle on your results sheet. Each round you will play a different opponent.

• Each round will last 2.5 hours. Players will have 15 minutes after the pairings have been called to deploy their models before time for the round begins.  Players may begin playing as soon as they have finished deployment.

• In the first round, teams will be matched up randomly. After the first round, teams will be matched up according to current rankings in the tournament (based on the number of points they've scored) e.g., the team in first place will play the team in second place and so on. We will try our best not to pair teams that come to the event together or regularly play each other in the first round. If a team receives a BYE they will be awarded max points for all objectives but zero points for everything else.

• You will not play the same team twice.

• We will do our best to prevent a team from playing on the same table twice.

• The pairings for each round will be announced as soon as they are determined. Please be sure to arrive at your table ready to play right away.

• Slow playing will NOT be tolerated.  Players are expected to complete at least 4 rounds.  If you suspect your opponent is slow playing PLEASE notify a Battleground staff member as soon as possible as we can not do anything about alleged slow play after the fact.

• Each game will be played on a 4' x 6' board.

• Players will receive Results Sheets at the beginning of each round. Each results sheet must be filled in properly to ensure that match-ups and point totals are correct. Once Results Sheets are completed they are to be turned in at the counter so the scores can be entered into the computer.




BATTLES:

The SIXTH Edition Rulebook and FAQ will be in use for all games and will be the definitive guide for all rules. The time limit for each game is 2 hours and 30 minutes. At the end of this time limit, the round will be called; all players will need to finish their game immediately, and no additional time will be provided (dice down).


What You Need to Bring with You:
-Your (hopefully painted) miniatures
-At least THREE copies of your army list
-Rulebooks and any additional books you need
-Pen and paper
-Dice and templates
-Tape measure
-Something to transport your army from table to table



Store Credit Awards will be given out to:
Store credit is good for any product in the store and all subsequent events. It never expires and will be saved for you.

Best Generals
Second Best Generals
Third Best Generals
Fourth Best Generals (only awarded if the turnout is large)

Best Appearance - Army (individual)
Second Best Appearance - Army (individual)
Third Best Appearance - Army (individual)

Players Choice - The Players Choice award will go to the team that the others feel best reflects important aspects of the hobby.  Every team will score their opponents on sportsmanship, theme, appearance, and overall awesomeness.  **This award will be significant.**

Smokin' Boots - You got crushed... and you deserve an award for your epic failure.


A team may only win one award. The Best Appearance awards may go to any one player participating in the event, regardless of their finish / other awards.


• A note on the Appearance award - We will award the individual who we feel has the best looking army. We will use a scoring rubric that looks at painting, basing, display boards, and various other "extras" to determine the winner.


Please post any questions or comments here.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: keithb on October 22, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Is there any reason troops can't be split 4-2 between players?  IE both have a min of 2, but the team has a max of 6?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Loranus on October 22, 2012, 03:09:47 PM
Chase will the new Dark Angels codex be legal if it drops before the tournament?

Keith its to prevent spamming of a better troop choice between the 2 codex.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on October 22, 2012, 03:23:14 PM
Is there any reason troops can't be split 4-2 between players?  IE both have a min of 2, but the team has a max of 6?

There is no good reason, no.

Saying 2-4 allows for 8 choices, which is illegal.
Saying 2 min + 2 floating is just different than the other things.

Yeah, no good reason.  I'd like to stick to 2 or 3 per player though.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on October 22, 2012, 03:24:28 PM
Chase will the new Dark Angels codex be legal if it drops before the tournament?

If I thought there was a remote possibility of this happening I'd say we would allow it.  I'm not sure GW has ever launched two army books back to back though.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on October 22, 2012, 04:50:30 PM
Can we clarify psychic powers to be "as per the book"?  Because standard, you could actually choose to roll on several different disciplines, if you have that many powers available. 
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: keithb on October 22, 2012, 05:03:20 PM
Chase will the new Dark Angels codex be legal if it drops before the tournament?

Keith its to prevent spamming of a better troop choice between the 2 codex.

That's weird. I thought it was a doubles event.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Khorne Spawn on October 22, 2012, 05:22:01 PM
If I choose a named Chaos Space Marine HQ, like Huron Blackheart, can I use the predefined Warlord trait, or would I still have to roll?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Typhus on October 22, 2012, 05:37:06 PM
If I choose a named Chaos Space Marine HQ, like Huron Blackheart, can I use the predefined Warlord trait, or would I still have to roll?

You don't roll, that's your Warlord Trait.

Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Grimwulfe on October 22, 2012, 05:38:37 PM
No warlord traits in Doubles games...
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on October 22, 2012, 05:46:15 PM
Since my email and phone have been going nuts about warlord traits... I'm thinking I might just get rid of them for Doubles.

It's an unfortunate situation.  I want players to be able to use as much of the new rules as possible / reasonable, but I also want there to be little confusion and negative "surprises."
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Grimwulfe on October 22, 2012, 05:56:35 PM
LOL i so missed that you added them in for this.  I would strongly suggest no warlord traits for the doubles.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Benjamin on October 22, 2012, 08:23:36 PM
I have no personal investment in the number of Warlord traits. So I can understand, what is the argument exactly against Warlord traits?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Bill on October 22, 2012, 08:29:24 PM
The issue I have seen with warlord traits Is that some are really awesome and most are terrible/useless. So much so that they can significantly help win games. I won a game at NOVA because I rolled -1 reserves on top of my officer of the fleet for -2 against a daemon army. In doubles if you allow each person to roll than you double this potential especially if the other team gets something useless.

Sure you can allow only one warlord per team than you have to decide who is the warlord than you get CSM who have their own chart that is meant to work with CSM, not every codex. It just seems much simpler, and cleaner to not have Warlord powers at all.

I don't think I have ever felt less fun or cheated by not rolling a warlord power and to be honest there have been many games I have just plain forgotten to do it.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: PhoenixFire on October 22, 2012, 10:22:17 PM
I'm not a huge fan of Warlord traits either, i guess it was another GW idea to introduce more randomness to the game.

Like Bill said some are great and others are completely worthless. In the 1850 tournament at BG last month  in 2 out of my 3 games i got completely worthless buffs. Of course i don't remember my opponents getting anything too spectacular either. The FnP and the ones that mess/help reserves are the only ones that even come to mind.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Loranus on October 23, 2012, 01:04:58 AM
Only Reason I asked was rumours supporting were going to see some GW release every month. Were going to see Warriors of Chaos for Fantasy and rumours Stating Dark Angels Mid or Late Novemeber with a Chaos Daemons Book sometime in Decemeber.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on October 23, 2012, 03:00:46 PM
We are going to remove Warlord Traits from the event.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on October 23, 2012, 03:06:26 PM
      (http://www.battlegroundgames.com/images/forum/battleground_blktext_clearbkgrd.png)


Battleground Games & Hobbies in Plainville MA



*This event will be the LAST in a series of Battleground 40k Invitational Qualifier Tournaments.  The Invitational will take place January 5th, 2013.*


Battleground is supremely concerned with keeping our Doubles tournaments fun, casual and appealing to all kinds of players and hobbyists.  With that said, we understand that by definition a tournament is competitive and we DO want that as well.  Due to the popularity of these events, we have altered the prize structure such that a larger percentage of the players involved receive prizes based on their accomplishments.  The awards are listed below.



Format: Doubles (2v2) 1000 points per person (no detachments)
Date: November 17th, 2012 a Saturday
Time: Please be here no later than 10:15am. Set up at 10:45am. Dice roll no later than 11:00am.
Entrance Fee: $20.00 per person / $40.00 per team


Address:
25 Taunton Street
Plainville MA 02762
508.316.1195

Find us on Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/dovyu)

Check out our Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Abington-MA/Battleground-Games-Hobbies/68808440618)


Contact:
Please contact me at ChaseLaq@gmail.com to sign up if and only if you and your partner can commit to playing on November 17th. If you need help finding a partner please post here.




RULES FOR WARHAMMER 40K TOURNAMENT

This event will be capped at 30 teams.

Rule Books:
The Warhammer 40,000 SIXTH Edition Rules will be used.

The following is a list of legal army choices:
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Necrons
Codex: Orks
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Tau Empire
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf)




MODELS AND POINTS:

1. Each player must bring an army consisting of 1000 points or fewer (975 min), in accordance with these rules. Each team will consist of two players fighting together.  Players will treat their teammate's army as "Allies of Convenience" at all times, for all reasons.  Allied detachments are NOT allowed in this event.

The Force Organization Chart will be split up into two parts as follows:

(Each team must take)
0-1 Bastion

(Each player must take)
1 HQ
0-1 Elites
2-3 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack
0-1 Heavy Support
0-1 Defense Line

In addition, the two players on a team share three ‘floating’ selections, one each in Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support. Either player may use up to two of these floating slots, but may not use the same slot as their partner. For example, Player A takes a second Elites choice and a second Heavy Support choice. This means their partner, Player B, may take a second Fast Attack choice as the third floating slot.

An exception to this is the mandatory choices for some armies. For example: "You must take this HQ at this many points." Those choices are allowed outside of these restrictions. Ex. Space Wolves.

2. All models must follow “What You See Is What You Get” (WYSIWYG). All weapons, war gear, and so forth must be represented on the model.

3. Pictures of conversions or "counts as" models must be emailed to the Tournament Organizer unless they have previously been approved.

4. Warlord Traits - Warlord Traits will not be used in this event.

5. Psychic Powers - At the start of each game, before deployment, players will be allowed to pick their discipline and roll on the corresponding chart to determine their power.

6. Unfortunately, Forge World Imperial Armor units (and army lists) may NOT be used in this event.  Forge world models may be used where appropriate, however.

7. For this event players will treat their teammates army as "Allies of Convenience" at all times for all reasons.

8. We will require that each player submits his army list to a Battleground Tournament Organizer on or before Monday, November 12th (roughly a week before the event). We ask that players email their lists to ChaseLaq@gmail.com as soon as they are finalized. We are going to do our best to check every list before the event begins.

9. If illegal units or other rules violations are found in a player’s army list, at a minimum, the models in violation will be removed from all subsequent play. In addition, tournament points may be deducted and/or award eligibility may be forfeited. If in doubt, please ask for clarification in advance from a Battleground Tournament Organizer.

10. Restrictions:

       â€¢ This event will not use "Mysterious Terrain" (p.102-103).
       â€¢ This event will not use "Archotech Artefacts" (p 106).
       â€¢ This event will not use "Unique Terrain" (p. 107).
       â€¢ This event will not allow The Fortress of Redemption.
       â€¢ This event will not allow Skyshield Landing Pads.


The scenarios we will be using for the event will be announced once they near completion.




HOW THE TOURNAMENT WORKS:

• Competitors will participate in three (3) games over the course of the day. In each game, you will play a scenario and record the outcome of the battle on your results sheet. Each round you will play a different opponent.

• Each round will last 2.5 hours. Players will have 15 minutes after the pairings have been called to deploy their models before time for the round begins.  Players may begin playing as soon as they have finished deployment.

• In the first round, teams will be matched up randomly. After the first round, teams will be matched up according to current rankings in the tournament (based on the number of points they've scored) e.g., the team in first place will play the team in second place and so on. We will try our best not to pair teams that come to the event together or regularly play each other in the first round. If a team receives a BYE they will be awarded max points for all objectives but zero points for everything else.

• You will not play the same team twice.

• We will do our best to prevent a team from playing on the same table twice.

• The pairings for each round will be announced as soon as they are determined. Please be sure to arrive at your table ready to play right away.

• Slow playing will NOT be tolerated.  Players are expected to complete at least 4 rounds.  If you suspect your opponent is slow playing PLEASE notify a Battleground staff member as soon as possible as we can not do anything about alleged slow play after the fact.

• Each game will be played on a 4' x 6' board.

• Players will receive Results Sheets at the beginning of each round. Each results sheet must be filled in properly to ensure that match-ups and point totals are correct. Once Results Sheets are completed they are to be turned in at the counter so the scores can be entered into the computer.




BATTLES:

The SIXTH Edition Rulebook and FAQ will be in use for all games and will be the definitive guide for all rules. The time limit for each game is 2 hours and 30 minutes. At the end of this time limit, the round will be called; all players will need to finish their game immediately, and no additional time will be provided (dice down).


What You Need to Bring with You:
-Your (hopefully painted) miniatures
-At least THREE copies of your army list
-Rulebooks and any additional books you need
-Pen and paper
-Dice and templates
-Tape measure
-Something to transport your army from table to table



Store Credit Awards will be given out to:
Store credit is good for any product in the store and all subsequent events. It never expires and will be saved for you.

Best Generals
Second Best Generals
Third Best Generals
Fourth Best Generals (only awarded if the turnout is large)

Best Appearance - Army (individual)
Second Best Appearance - Army (individual)
Third Best Appearance - Army (individual)

Players Choice - The Players Choice award will go to the team that the others feel best reflects important aspects of the hobby.  Every team will score their opponents on sportsmanship, theme, appearance, and overall awesomeness.  **This award will be significant.**

Smokin' Boots - You got crushed... and you deserve an award for your epic failure.


A team may only win one award. The Best Appearance awards may go to any one player participating in the event, regardless of their finish / other awards.


• A note on the Appearance award - We will award the individual who we feel has the best looking army. We will use a scoring rubric that looks at painting, basing, display boards, and various other "extras" to determine the winner.


Please post any questions or comments here.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: corporaptor primus on October 25, 2012, 04:41:19 PM
If I have models on the board and my partner starts 100% in reserve, would we auto lose because of the no-models-on-the-board rule?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Seth on October 25, 2012, 04:43:01 PM
no then deamons would auto lose every game.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: keithb on October 25, 2012, 04:53:23 PM
If I have models on the board and my partner starts 100% in reserve, would we auto lose because of the no-models-on-the-board rule?

Double check when this rule is triggered.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Benjamin on October 26, 2012, 12:39:03 AM
I'm pretty sure the trigger is at the end of a turn.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on October 26, 2012, 01:31:01 AM
Yes, it is, but even so....if one partner were not on the table at the end of the turn, I do not see why that would be a loss.  The two are halves of the same army....you would not have "tabled" them if you only killed one partner, would you?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Benjamin on October 26, 2012, 08:14:08 AM
I think the point that needs to be clarified is that your team is playing as one force. You are not playing as two separate players.

Your partner is allowed to keep playing if he has models only left in reserves, so long as you have models on the table.

If you both have models only in reserve at the end of a turn, or no models whatsoever, then your team is tabled and you lose.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: keithb on October 26, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
I'm pretty sure the trigger is at the end of a turn.

Game turn, not player turn.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: steelforge on November 05, 2012, 09:02:00 PM
Is there night fighting or does the potential for night fighting exist?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 05, 2012, 09:37:28 PM
OK, so, just to extend the "everything I have in reserve" thing...
There's a rule in 6th edition that you can't reserve more than half of your units (units that must start the game in reserve don't count towards this calculation). 

If I and my partner both have 4 units that don't need to start in reserves, can I start with all  4 on the table & my partner can reserve all 4?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on November 05, 2012, 09:56:03 PM
I'm not sure if this helps, but your lists are considered to be a single 1000 point list and are expected to function like one until the game begins.  Once the game begins you can benefit from your partners army in any way that Allies of Convinced would.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 05, 2012, 10:36:03 PM
Hmm, Chase, does "until the game begins" mean, until turn 1 starts?  Or does the game begin during deployment (which is after all a part of the game and happens while the game clock is on).  If the halves are considered 1 army during deployment, it would follow that one team can put all of their units in reserve (as long as it's not more than half of the total units in the army).  On the other hand, if the armies are still 2 different armies during deployment, that would mean that each half would have to deploy have of their units...
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on November 05, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
This is sort of why I hate trying to answer anything. :(

Your list is your list.  It's not part of your partners list.  They are two armies that fight together but treat each other as Allies of Convenience.

I run into problems saying things because I don't know what the implications are. :)
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 05, 2012, 11:52:17 PM
Sorry chase, not trying to be a pain, I promise :)   It's just that that you aren't actually answering the question...  My question doesn't relate to whether something is a legal list, it's about whether a certain move (reserving all of one player's units) is legal during the game.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 05, 2012, 11:55:21 PM
This came up the other night when I was playing a practice doubles game with 3 folks... my teammate was like "I'm going to outflank all of my stuff".   We couldn't decide whether that was legit or not.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Benjamin on November 06, 2012, 08:13:52 AM
Chase, this is why you hired Sam.

I believe the intent is the lists are separate from one another. For purposes of effects on the battlefield, the teammate's army is treated as an Ally of Convenience.

With that interpretation, though, I think I'm wrong about about the logic regarding a teammate being tabled despite having models in Reserve. I can't tell you how much I hate that rule. It's beyond my pay grade (of zero dollars and zero cents) to make the call.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Erich on November 06, 2012, 08:40:15 AM
This came up the other night when I was playing a practice doubles game with 3 folks... my teammate was like "I'm going to outflank all of my stuff".   We couldn't decide whether that was legit or not.

Seems as long you treat the army as one force and follow the rules for reserves it sorts itself out. Chase stated that, for the purposes of the tournament all armies would be under the Allies of Convenience, so it is no different than bringing a 1000 point main detachment with 1000 points of allies and playing it yourself...you just have a teammate to help make tactical choices, move models and roll dice.

Therefore, half of the units (not points) may be held in reserves. If Teammate B decides to hold all of units in resevers (and it works out that this is half of the units from the combined list) then it is legit. If Teammate A has no units at on the table at the end of turn 1 (ouch), then that team loses the game.

From the rule book.

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to hold of their units (rounding up) keeping them in Reserves to arrive later."

Also...

"...if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins."

The team is the "player" rather than there being two players.

This is my interpretation anyhow.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 06, 2012, 10:08:51 AM
I think we should nip this in the bud RIGHT now and rule that it doesn't work that way.

It happens frequently in these doubles games where one player gets tabled, but the other half keeps fightin' on... are we really going to say that the game ends whenever one player-half gets tabled (leaving aside this whole reserves thing)?  That seems pretty lame to me.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: keithb on November 06, 2012, 10:22:01 AM
I think we should nip this in the bud RIGHT now and rule that it doesn't work that way.

It happens frequently in these doubles games where one player gets tabled, but the other half keeps fightin' on... are we really going to say that the game ends whenever one player-half gets tabled (leaving aside this whole reserves thing)?  That seems pretty lame to me.

It doesn't work that way.  Allies count as part of the same fighting force.  As long as one of either of your models is on the table, you are not wiped out.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: BrianP on November 06, 2012, 12:31:14 PM
This is sort of why I hate trying to answer anything. :(

Your list is your list.  It's not part of your partners list.  They are two armies that fight together but treat each other as Allies of Convenience.

I run into problems saying things because I don't know what the implications are. :)

The bold makes it pretty clear, and underlined more so.

One player cannot reserve all of their stuff.
One player cannot outflank all of their stuff.
If one list is tabled at the end of the turn that half of the team is done.

We are getting caught up on the "Allies" term and trying to make sense applying GW's allies rules instead of the Tournament's specific approach. This is a doubles tournament, not an allies tournament. We are not Allies in the sense that this is one shared list, that is VERY clear. We are simply two different armies that show up at the same time to fight two other, different, armies. The allies of convenience part was just added so people can play their armies whatever the combination, Necrons and Sisters for example. As such, the three statements above should be true.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: steelforge on November 06, 2012, 01:43:13 PM
Question about scenarios or turn 1/4 of 6E at this tournament

Is there night fighting or does the potential for night fighting exist?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 06, 2012, 02:01:34 PM
Cool, quietdeus, I'm glad it is clear to you.  (also, it seems that Chase's post was edited after I wrote my question... and I agree with the extra words it does seem to lean towards this interpretation more)....

Chase/Sam, is quietdeus right on with his 3 conclusions?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Erich on November 06, 2012, 02:28:51 PM
Cool, quietdeus, I'm glad it is clear to you.  (also, it seems that Chase's post was edited after I wrote my question... and I agree with the extra words it does seem to lean towards this interpretation more)....

Chase/Sam, is quietdeus right on with his 3 conclusions?

I agree. I based my post going strictly by the rulebook but that may not be the best course when dealing with special events such as this Doubles Tournament.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: BrianP on November 06, 2012, 02:47:10 PM
Cool, quietdeus, I'm glad it is clear to you.  (also, it seems that Chase's post was edited after I wrote my question... and I agree with the extra words it does seem to lean towards this interpretation more)....

Chase/Sam, is quietdeus right on with his 3 conclusions?

I did not mean to come off as an ass or anything, I just think we all (both as a Battleground, and 40k as a whole, community) need to get better about asking direct questions and giving direct answers.

To be fair you definitely asked a clear question to which Chase gave you an initially wishy-washy answer (<3 Chase).

When I'm playing for fun I care what the rulebook says, when I'm playing at a specific event I care what the organizers decide. If Sam and Chase rule we all have to wear purple, guess what? I'm showing up dressed as Grimace  ;D. We just need to get a bit better about leaving a succinct list of questions and waiting for the (hopefully yes/no) answer.

Right now we are at:
Can one player reserve all of their units?
Can one player outflank all of their units?
If one list is tabled at the end of the turn, is that half of the team done for the game?
Will night fight be in play?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Benjamin on November 06, 2012, 08:53:22 PM
I e-mailed Sam to read this thread.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on November 06, 2012, 09:01:44 PM
I'll let Sam handle the other questions because trying to answer them myself is likely a terrible idea.

I can say that night fight / the potential for night fight will exist in all of our 40k tournaments unless stated otherwise.  6th ed seems to incorporate it pretty heavily and we will too.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Grand Master Steve on November 07, 2012, 04:49:51 PM
I managed to get the day off so I would like to attend I just need a team mate that can work well with my Ultramarines 4th Company
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Sam on November 07, 2012, 05:05:46 PM
For the purposes of this tournament, the following will be the case:

1. If, at the end of any game turn, both players on a team have no models on the battlefield, the opposing team automatically wins. If only one member of the team is tabled, play continues.

2. Each player (individually) may choose to keep up to half their units in Reserve. This percentage is based on each 1000-point list, not the 2000-point team roster (ie, one player may not elect to keep his entire force in reserve unless special rules would allow him to do so).

Yes, these two rulings do indeed interpret the word "player" in two different ways. The main rulebook is not written with doubles play in mind, so the rules will not map over one to one in all cases. Please plan your strategy accordingly. Thanks, folks.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: andalucien on November 07, 2012, 05:24:25 PM
Thanks Sam, that makes sense :)

One more thing to clarify:  You said "If only one member of the team is tabled, play continues."  Does this mean that if, as 1 player, if I personally have no units on the board at the end of my turn, but I have some still in reserve, I can keep playing and those units can come in from reserve?   Or when I personally get tabled, does MY participation in the game end? 
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on November 07, 2012, 05:57:23 PM
OMG, I'm sorry, but this is not confusing!  No, everything continues as normal in there are any models from the coalition on the board at the end of the game turn.  It is exactly as if they were a single player for this purpose.



On that note, I don't care over much, but I think it would be much cooler if one half of the team was allowed to reserve completely.  I think the 6th limitations on all-reserve are a little lame, and I think it would be fun to see the old style Descent of Angel lists, or whatever.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Sam on November 07, 2012, 06:42:09 PM
One more thing to clarify:  You said "If only one member of the team is tabled, play continues."  Does this mean that if, as 1 player, if I personally have no units on the board at the end of my turn, but I have some still in reserve, I can keep playing and those units can come in from reserve?

Correct.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Grand Master Steve on November 09, 2012, 09:21:40 PM
Im still looking for a partner if any one wants to team up with Ultra Marines 4th Company.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Erich on November 12, 2012, 11:04:12 AM
When are lists due in for this event?

Found it...it is today...time to finalize.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: wheelchairman on November 14, 2012, 10:03:20 PM
Looking for a last minute partner mine had to drop.

Dean (that guy in a wheelchair)
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Hans on November 15, 2012, 03:01:04 PM
I too need a partner, whatcha say?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: wheelchairman on November 15, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
sure dude.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Typhus on November 16, 2012, 02:08:54 PM
Chase -

Any word on scenarios, or are they going to be super sekrit?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on November 16, 2012, 03:53:13 PM
I suppose I could post them but things were delayed so much that I just didn't.  Fortunately, no one asked until just now!

They're different and a lot more straight forward than normal.  Here's hoping they work well.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: keithb on November 16, 2012, 05:25:38 PM
I suppose I could post them but things were delayed so much that I just didn't.  Fortunately, no one asked until just now!

They're different and a lot more straight forward than normal not adepticon missions.  Here's hoping they work well.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Chase on November 16, 2012, 05:56:20 PM
Hahah!  Well, they're sort of Adepticon missions.  Or... Largely Adepticon missions, just a bit more straight forward.

I think they're cool because they ask for teams to play as teams.  Here's hoping they don't suck.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012
Post by: Erich on November 17, 2012, 09:18:48 AM
Looking forward to the tournament. Good luck to everyone today!