Battleground Games Forum
Miniature Games => Warmachine / Hordes => Topic started by: skavengear on August 22, 2010, 05:42:47 PM
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Im going to start playing Hordes now as well (if all goes according to the plans in my happy place) and want to play the following legion list at 35 points:
warlock:
Thagrosh, prophet of everblight (non-epic version)
Warbeasts:
Carnivean
Scythean
Seraph
Shredders x4
Stingers x2
This is definitly what i like out of the range, so i would rather hear suggestions on how to play this list, unless of course its garbage, the by all means let me know :P
Thank you in advance for helpful posters :D
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Having only warbeasts will make winning very hard.
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Steve seems to do just fine with his all beast list, its pretty close to what he runs for beasts. what i lose in numbers and toughness i gain doubly in speed and power. plus i can be a little more aggresive since thagrosh can use dark revival to bring back a beast (essentially making my opponent kill 2 carniveans)
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Steve does okay due to his warlock choice. However, even he won't deny he sacrifices a lot for theme.
Anyway, regardless of Steve's performance, I think this is a weak list.
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is there a reason? beyond the fact its all warbeasts. i dont see why its not at least a big improvement from the menite army
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The list has no reliable answers to infantry outside of Obliteration and a spray template.
Draconic Blessing is best used on a unit rather than a warbeast as it's effect is much greater there.
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I am a bit unclear as to why you want to start Hordes. It seems like you have only played a hand full of Warmachine games with a terrible list. Why not get a better Menoth list and try that out?
As for your proposed Hordes list I can not comment as to how it will play against other hordes lists. I can say that against Warmachine it looks like a terrible list. Steve's having fun playing his list aside, running all war beasts with that warlock does not sound particularly bright.
I do not understand why people keep assuming infantry is terrible. Yes Jacks and Warbeasts got a little better this edition. That does NOT negate how amazing infantry can be. It seems to me that Ian walked all over several people with infantry units. I know my infantry has been troublesome in games for people to deal with... and yet people whine about the kiaza (sp) assassins rather than realizing that infantry can be good. Get with the program and build a balanced list.
Speaking of Ian...
Skaven_Knight is your sig line:
"Warmachine (Protectorate of Menoth) - 7w 0d 5l"
only for imaginary games, or games against your little sister or something? I seem to remember Ian handing you your a$$ 3 times that are not recorded, but you inserted 2 wins.
Did we read different copies of page 5 or something?
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Note to all readers: I am not judging anyone or angry about anything. Do not let my brevity fool you into thinking my posts are anywhere near Matt's in tone.
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i play elsewhere also where people play more of the all jack or beast list and enjoyable lists. just because somebody doesnt like doing
ists to win doesnt mean it cant have a good game and be enjoyable for the player. all i asked was for tips and tricks with the model not for people to say that my list is shitty and cant win etc. id lose to people at bg anyways since you are all expirienced. id rather enjoy
osing than lose and not be happy. the wins are from people who have equal expirience to me, since im an only child anyways.
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I'm really not in the mood to argue, but you did say "i would rather hear suggestions on how to play this list, unless of course its garbage, the by all means let me know".
I think the list is garbage. I let you know. Play whatever you like, just don't post asking for comments if you don't want to hear critiques.
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well thank you ian for the advice. i wasnt arguing. i dont mind critique as long as it was more explained than that its just stupid haha. well was the cryx list better with deathjack seether, bane thralls, unit attatchment, and tartarus? im not too sure on caster but probablly goreshade or ashyxious
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If you use eGorshade, that Cryx list will be reasonable.
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reasonable is always better than garbage ;)
is there any suggestions to improve upon them? i kind of like seether and death jack though theyre pretty cool. this army is average speed, has toughness, can stand up for no action, and everytime they kill something they get another banethrall.
the problem with menoth is i really didnt care for the skirmishers too muuch and had already bought what i liked, where as cryx is the only army i actually like the units and jacks both.
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Seether and Deathjack are both amazing. Bane Thralls are amazing. Their UA is amazing. With eGoreshade, it's completely goofy.
Its very, very close to what I would play for a similar list. The big downside is there isn't any real room for Bile Thralls or a Pistol Wraith, leaving you vulnerable to solos and without an easy button for units. Overall, its a fine list.
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cool :) if two bane thralls are next to a target then does it take a -4 to armor? because doesnt that mean they just ragdoll jacks?
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No.
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ah, theyre not as crazy as i thought. but still pretty cool. the one thing i dont understand is why menoth is slower than the undead army. isnt it pretty standard for undead to be slow and relentless vs fast and furious. not that im complaining. by the way, might pick up the pistol wraith. he seems cool.
quote:
"protectorate is lame" -indeed ;D
should i play goreshade aggressively or back? it seems like every game i saw matt play he had his caster right up in the middle of the board, or is that just his caster?
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Protectorate can be very, very fast. My Protectorate army makes my Khador look slow.
I honestly have no idea how to play goreshade very well. He's a great midrange caster. Where he is at every moment will depend on board positions.
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I may end up being stuck with protectorate anyways if i cant sell my blood angels. too bad cuz cryx is pretty cool. khador is really good, im just not a fan of the model range and russian themes. The Hordes stuff is kind of hit and miss through every army (some i like the units but no beasts or vice versa). Cryx and Protectorate were the only two i had an interest in a little of everything.
im a picky bastard though :D
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...the one thing i dont understand is why menoth is slower than the undead army. isnt it pretty standard for undead to be slow and relentless vs fast and furious...
The Iron Kingdoms world does not necessarily follow the same rules as B horror movies.
Of course Menoth can be quite fast when it wants to and there are slower Cryx units.
But within the 'fluff' you will find the reason why the armies are set up the way they are. Cryx are raiders who use necromancy to power their abominations. They strike quickly where least expected then disappear bringing the dead with them. Their jacks trade armor and durability for speed. They follow very long term plans from the dragon father.
Menoth is a country of religious zealots. They are out to convert the world and under the control of religious leaders who sometimes war among themselves. Their goal is to burn the heretics from the rest of Immoren. Speed isn't of essence for them for their heavy jacks. Though their units can be quite fast.
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i play elsewhere also where people play more of the all jack or beast list and enjoyable lists.
All the more reason to put in some infantry. You saw what it does to your all jack list. Throw in some indrian skirmishers and some zellots and see what happens, rather than dropping the faction.
just because somebody doesnt like doing ists to win doesnt mean it cant have a good game and be enjoyable for the player.
If that is your impression of our group you are seriously delusional. YOU asked for feedback on wither your list was good. Our help does not in any way mean we don't think you should play what you want. Just man up and realize you will sacrifice your win loss record (which now reflects an army you don't own) in order to play whatever strikes you as fun. Many of us have done the same thing in the past. I played Ashlyn for a long time. Not exactly a power caster. Ian literally used dice to determine his lists. Steve plays a list based exclusively on theme.
all i asked was for tips and tricks with the model not for people to say that my list is shitty and cant win etc.
NO. You specifically asked to know if people thought the list was garbage. Lying about what you asked and geting bent out of shape over it doesn't demonstrate a mature approach to the game.
I don't mean to chase you away but when you ask something specific and get a specific answer don't blame those helping you in their spare time.
id lose to people at bg anyways since you are all expirienced. id rather enjoy osing than lose and not be happy. the wins are from people who have equal expirience to me, since im an only child anyways.
There are like 3 people at battlegrounds who are experienced and currently playing with any frequency. Several more are inexperienced. Pick up a game with Rick, Jay, etc. If you don't want to challenge up the ladder.
When I was brand new to the game I got trampled by more (qty) experienced players than you are facing and I still enjoyed it. It taught me a lot and they were fun games. It is all about your attitude. You CAN have fun loosing. Especially if you listen to the advice people freely give after the game.
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the skirmishers was a joke, my cell left out the emoticon im actually picking them up soon. i never didnt enjoy losing, nor not have fun. i just was looking for explanations toward why it was garbage. when it wasnt explained, words can be misinterpreted. im not giving up menoth i just have enough after skirmishers that i cant see needing much more. i see your point completely matt and agree. sorry if i came off that way i respect you and ians advise. look forward to many more fun games
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Skaven,
Glad to hear you are going to continue learning how to play Menoth and are enjoying the process.
In reference to my posts keep in mind that I am not known for my subtlety.
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Nor are you known for your spelling.
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yeah, the menites are cool and all. im pretty much happy with whatever happens. Does anyone (who will let me use 40k models to proxy skirmishers) want to play a few games so i can learn them better?
also, is it worth having even 1 squad of bastions
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also, is it worth having even 1 squad of bastions
IANAPP (I am not a Protectorate player)
But I would hazard a guess that it is entirely situational and dependent upon what else is on your list, as well as what your strategy for winning is.
In general in WARMACHINE look for balanced lists with complementary models that work together to be more powerful than the sum the individuals. As I understand it. Protectorate is especially big on these synergies.
So the answer is:
A) Do you like them enough to play with them regardless of how good they are?
B) What do they do for you? And what else on your list works with them to make them better at doing it?
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Yes to a, kind of...? to b. i mean running eKreoss kind of makes everything better on my feat turn. an extra weapon master hit is never bad, i think reach helps make up about 20% for their slow speed.
im gonna run them a few more times and see ;D